To the pagans

[Truffles]

How do you respond when Christians call Halloween (Samhain) wicked and evil? I know a little about some of the origins but not enough to present a coherent argument.

To the admins and mods: Can I post a link to another board to clarify?

[Jory]

How do you respond when Christians call Halloween (Samhain) wicked and evil? I know a little about some of the origins but not enough to present a coherent argument.

To the admins and mods: Can I post a link to another board to clarify?


I am not a Pagan, but I respond with a big eyeroll and an Oh brother. But hey, believe what you want. We could point out all of the Pagan roots in Christmas and Easter. And you wanna talk evil, how about lying to your children about Santa and Easter bunny? Ok, it is a white lie and cute fantasy, but still a lie. I like how someone put it to me. If you lie about Santa and the Easter bunny to your children, how are they supposed to believe you when you tell tehm about God? Sorry getting ot a bit.

[Val]

How do you respond when Christians call Halloween (Samhain) wicked and evil? I know a little about some of the origins but not enough to present a coherent argument.

To the admins and mods: Can I post a link to another board to clarify?

I think I'd ask WHY they think it is "evil" first. If they say it was a "pagan holiday" you might just say "Perhaps you should do some reading on Samhain, it was a much different holiday than you might imagine."

If they say it is because they feel kids behave inappropriately on that night (making mischief, etc.) I'd be less inclined to argue, but say that I won't let a few bad apples spoil a fun night for my kids.

I'd also mention that the people who truly pervert the notion of secular Halloween (ie trick or treating) by doing real evil are few and far between, and most of those people are not your average pagan, if they are pagan at all!!!

[mom2burgess]

I usually just smile nicely and tell them they may want to educate themselves

[Slabobbin]

Online I usually manage to come up with a some what intellegent sounding response, in real life not so much so. :jester1:

[Opus]

How do you respond when Christians call Halloween (Samhain) wicked and evil? I know a little about some of the origins but not enough to present a coherent argument.

To the admins and mods: Can I post a link to another board to clarify?
I have never heard any christians or others call Halloween evil, I have heard where some don't "celebrate" it but not evil...

and how can a night be evil, it cant, only people can be evil and I dont think anyone evil practices it anymore but thats probably nieve

[kingclick]

I wonder why some people would think it was evil. It's focus is on death, murder, demons, blood, gore, scaring and many other images of evil and bad luck. Shock!

What people don't understand is that Halloween is not what it was when it started. It's what it is today.....and SOME people see these things as evil.

Go figure.

[Truffles]

Ok, since no moderator or admin answered my question about posting a link to clarify, I'll just quote what this poster posted without a link.
This was part of the sermon that we had at church today. I thought it was interesting....enjoy!

THE TRUE ORIGINS OF HALLOWEEN

I. THE HOLIDAY CAN BE TRACED BACK TO 600 B.C.
A. The popular associations of the holiday are derived from ancient Celtic and Druid religious practices.
1. Halloween is celebrated on October 31st.
2. This is one of eight “SABBATS” or high festival days of the Witches Calendar.
a. IMBLOG: FEB 2, SPRING EQUINOX: MAR 21, BELTANE: APR 30, MIDSUMMER SOLSTICE: JUN 22, LUGNASAD: JUL 31, AUTUMN EQUINOX: SEPT 21, SAMHAIN: OCT 31(ON THE EVE OF NOV 1ST) & WINTER SOLSTICE (YULE): DEC 22.
3. Imblog, Beltane, Lugnasad, and Samhain are known as greater Sabbats.
a. The four equinoxes are considered lesser Sabbats.
4. The festival of Samhain is the festival of “the lord of the dead.”
a. Samhain is known as the “celebration of death.”
b. It is considered the counterbalance of Beltane (Apr 30) which greets summer.
II. THE DRUIDS BELIEFS
A. It was believed that the wicked dead would rise from their graves and attempt to return to their homes and that witches and demons would roam the countryside on Samhain.
1. This is a mockery of the Christian belief in the resurrection to a glorified body.
a. In druidism, the dead are raised as grotesque monsters, creatures of the night and decaying skeletons.
2. The Celtic people would dress up like demons and monsters if they had to go outside to trick the evil spirits into thinking that they are one of them.
a. This is the origin of Halloween costumes.
B. Samhain is considered the supreme night of demonic jubilation.
1. Anton Lavay, the author of the Satanic bible, and the high priest and founder of the Church of Satan says that Satanists consider Halloween the most important day of the year. On this night, satanic, occult, and witchcraft forces are at their highest potency level.
a. There are some rituals and spells that can only be performed on Samhain.
2. Divination and fortune telling is also believed to be at its highest level on Samhain.
a. It is considered the day when the veil between the physical and spiritual world is the thinnest.
C. The Druids would perform human and animal sacrifices on Samhain.
1. They would go from house to house demanding a sacrifice such as livestock, food, or even a child or virgin for human sacrifice.
a. Children are considered the best sacrifice by Satanists. The younger the child, the purer the blood, and the better the sacrifice.
2. If the demanded sacrifice was not given, they would cast a spell on the house.
a. Legend says that an evil spirit would kill somebody in that home that night.
3. If the demanded sacrifice was given, they would leave a gourd with a candle of human fat on the doorstep.
a. This would prevent those inside from being killed by demons that night.
b. This is the origin of the jack-o-lantern and trick or treat.
c. This is a mockery of the Jewish Passover.
III. SOME COMMON SYMBOLS OF THE HOLIDAY
A. The colors orange, black, and red are the colors of Satan.
1. A satanic high priest wears a red robe when performing the black mass.
a. During the black mass he performs a human sacrifice.
B. The Jack-O-Lantern (Legend)
1. The ancient symbol of a damned soul.
a. Named for a man named Jack who could not enter heaven or **** and was damned to wander in darkness with his lantern until judgment day.
C. The black cat
1. Linked to re-incarnation
a. The Druids believed that cats were once humans who are being punished for evil deeds.
2. Familiar spirits: a demon who acts as a companion or attendant of witches, they usually possess the bodies of a cat or another animal.
D. Fangs or animal teeth
1. LYCANTHROPY (WOLFERY) The belief that through certain occult rituals, men can transform themselves into animals.
a. The eating of human flesh and blood is common in wolfery.
IV. THE “CHRISTIANIZING” OF THE HOLIDAY
A. Constantine made Catholicism the state religion of the Roman empire.
1. All non-catholics were forced to accept the state religion.
a. The pagans brought with them their pagan practices.
2. The church didn’t want to ex-communicate them because it would reduce their membership.
a. They were unable to force the pagans to discard their heathenistic practices.
3. The pagans were allowed to keep their heathen festivals.
4. In approx 800 A.D. the Catholic church established “All Saints Day” on Nov 1st to replace the pagan “All Souls Day”.
a. They claimed that it was to commemorate the death of the “saints”.
b. The pagans could then continue with their ancient festival.
c. The mass said on this day was called ALLHALLOWMAS.
d. The evening before was called ALL HALLOW E’EN or HALLOWEEN.
V. SHOULD GOD’S PEOPLE PARTICIPATE IN HALLOWEEN?
A. THE QUESTION SHOULD BE “SHOULD GOD’S PEOPLE PARTICIPATE IN ANCIENT PAGAN RELIGIOUS RITUALS?”
1. Some Christians defend their participation in the holiday by asserting their liberty in Jesus Christ from the bondages of “legalism” or shrug it off as innocent fun.
2. What does the Bible say? DEUT 18:9-14, LEV 20:2-7, ACTS 19:18-19, II COR 6:14-18, EPH 5:1-`7.
I COR 10:31 “WHETHER THEREFORE YE EAT, OR DRINK, OR WHATSOEVER YE DO, DO ALL TO THE GLORY OF GOD.”
Even though I am an atheist, I dislike misrepresentation. The information seems to be a mish-mash of truth and spin.

[Val]

Ok, since no moderator or admin answered my question about posting a link to clarify, I'll just quote what this poster posted without a link.

Even though I am an atheist, I dislike misrepresentation. The information seems to be a mish-mash of truth and spin.

Some of this informations is wrong, even from the Christian historical side.

The Catholic Church did not "replace" All Souls Day with All Saints Day. We celebrate both. All Saints Day is on November 1st. All Souls Day is on November 2. All Saints Day celebrates all the saints and martyrs, known and unknown, who do not have their own special saint's day observance. All Souls Day celebrates the resurrection of all the souls of the faithfully departed, and is a day for requiem masses to be said in honor of the dead.

By the way, Halloween is short for "All Hallow's Eve", Hallows meaning holy, ie. the evening before the Holy Day - All Saints Day. My DD was born on All Saints Day. :)

Halloween has pagan roots and was "Christianized" for lack of a better word. I feel the two holidays can coexist peacefully. Halloween is for the most part a secular holiday for those of us who do not celebrate Samhain - just as some non-Christians still celebrate Christmas with just a tree and gifts. I don't think that Halloween is "anti-Christian", though I know folks who do. Honestly, I loved going to Catholic school because not only did we have off on All Saint's Day, it meant we could stay out late the night before trick or treating! ;)

[Lynaka]

I have to agree with Val here, there are some very obvious points that are just outright wrong and some that are downright inflammatory. And I always laugh, even as an atheist, when some religious groups make a connection between satanism and paganism - they obviously fail to understand that in order for one to be a satanist that person also has to believe in the idea of a god and a devil to begin with. Paganists aren't generally monotheistic, so the acceptance of an idea such as satan, a christian symbol, is rather moot for them.

I, too, despise misrepresentation, particularly if this was actually delivered from a religious pulpit!