spin off - health care

[abcNKH]

So I have a few ideas on how to pay for national health care.

First. with all due respect to Obama - let him pay for his own date night, He seems to have plenty of personal money, why should the taxpayers foot any of that bill? And since he has plenty of personal money, why don't we just ask that he donate his salary to the health care fund? It isn't that much, and we all know that the president is not in it for the money anyway.

And what about other politicians with plenty of personal money? They are so used to passing laws that take more of our paycheck every day. Is it because they don't know what it is like to struggle? If they have plenty of personal money, why don't we just tell them they have to donate their salary, too.

OK, lets go on to other folks. What about Bill Gates and Donald Trump and Oprah? They have millions and millions. What if we just said they need to donate their fair share - how about 50 mil. Pocket change for them.
And how about other Hollywood types and sports figures?

By the time we are done, who knows, it might just be paid for and then some.

So, other ideas?

[flygirl]

OH, crap NKH. Ultra conservative here. We don't pay our president much. My husband earns more a year than the president and he's (according to rumor) retired.
Perks are part of the deal. How whiney to bitch about him taking his wife out. It's not like he can drop in to DQ for a sundae with her in this job.
Bill Gates, Oprah, Buffet, et al HAVE donated. Bill Gates gave away half his fortune and we all bitched because some of it went to sex-ed and birth control in the AIDS ravaged African nations.
Warren gave away ALL his fortune, but he's Midas, and he made a new one, in his 70's.
Trump lost his fortune and regained it through hard work and genius. Why should he have to be more responsible for his fellows than are you or I?
Your post reeks of sour grapes.

[abcNKH]

Perks are part of the deal. How whiney to bitch about him taking his wife out. It's not like he can drop in to DQ for a sundae with her in this job..I am not bitching about him taking his wife out. I am bitching about the fact that the taxpayers have to pay for it. This, IMO, is one of the many ways the government is wasting our money. He is perfectly capable of paying for his own dates and perks. Why does John Q Public have to foot that bill? Why don't we quit paying for that stuff, the same as if I am in a budget crisis, I have to cut out perks I can no longer afford. I used to have more perks at work. They had a budget crisis, and now I have less. Now I have to pay for those things if I want them out of my own pocket. Why is it that if you work for the government, they don't cut out the perks when they are in a budget crisis? They just say, oh BTW, John Q - we are taking another dime from you this week...
Your post reeks of sour grapessour grapes about what? That I am being forced to foot the bill? That the government is taking more and more of my money every day? If that is what it is, then I am guilty. However, I see it as I have just had enough. ENOUGH. Find another way to foot the bill for this insane spending.

[flygirl]

I am not bitching about him taking his wife out. I am bitching about the fact that the taxpayers have to pay for it. This, IMO, is one of the many ways the government is wasting our money. He is perfectly capable of paying for his own dates and perks. Why does John Q Public have to foot that bill?OH MY FREAKING GOD!!!
You think on $400,000 a year Obama can afford all the secret service, security, communications........it takes to keep OUR (yours and mine and everyone else's whether we voted for him or not) President and his family safe? What is wrong with you? This man works for us 24/7. He has placed his family in jeopardy for us, and I will gladly kick in for his 'date', even though he often makes me want to vomit. Christ on a cracker NKH! Perks for us are paid vacations and free hotels and such. Perks for our Prexy is the money spent to keep he and his family safe in their gilded cage. WOW, selfish much girl?

[abcNKH]

OH MY FREAKING GOD!!!
You think on $400,000 a year Obama can afford all the secret service, security, communications........it takes to keep OUR (yours and mine and everyone else's whether we voted for him or not) President and his family safe? What is wrong with you? This man works for us 24/7. He has placed his family in jeopardy for us, and I will gladly kick in for his 'date', even though he often makes me want to vomit. Christ on a cracker NKH! Perks for us are paid vacations and free hotels and such. Perks for our Prexy is the money spent to keep he and his family safe in their gilded cage. WOW, selfish much girl?He has a personal worth of 1.3 million dollars. http://nymag.com/news/politics/encyclopedia/personalwealth/. So why should the taxpayers foot the bill for his date night? Why can't he go on a date locally? I am sure there are local restaurants and theater. If the senator or governor from AZ spent taxpayer money on personal expenses, he/she would be lucky not to wind up in jail. But somehow if the president does that, we are supposed to just accept it without question? There has to be limits on this sort of spending, and right now, there are not. That makes me extremely angry when I think about how much I already pay in taxes, let alone the increases we are going to see due to the money he has spent since he has taken office and what the national debt will be when all is said and done.

When bailout money was spent on things the people didn't think it should be spent on, there was a total outcry. When bonuses were paid at one of the bailout companies (can't remember which), those people were asked to return that money, and if they didn't, then the government was ready to tax that money at 100%. But no one questions it when the federal government spends money on 'perks'. Why is that?

All I am trying to say, is that Obama seems to be more than willing to spend MY money, and to tell banks and car companies how to spend THEIRS, but doesn't give a second thought to how HE spends taxpayer money for his personal expenses.

If I have to pay an extra 5% of my salary in taxes, then I have to cut something out of my personal budget. People with personal wealth would not have to do so. Our tax system is supposed to be based on ability to pay. If someone has the ability to pay a million dollars without blinking an eye, then why don't we ask them to do just that?

yes, I AM selfish. I work hard for my money and I want to keep it, or at least most of it. Obama gets to keep HIS money since MY money financed his date nite. So even though the OP was meant to be sarcastic, the question at hand is still the same, but let me reword it.

Is there a way to finance national healthcare without additional taxes from John Q Public who would have to cut something out of his own budget to pay for the increases in taxes?

[flygirl]

Christ on a cracker girl.
Earn your money, don't pay for anything you don't like but still have your kids educated for free, have clean water when you turn the knob, have light when you flick the switch, have the force of the police descend on anyone you bitch about, and have state of the art weapons, soldiers....defend you where you stand.
Yeah, OK, I have a tax free place for you. Wanna know where it is?

[Hawkyfan99]

The difference is, the President...as "leader of the free world" is saddled with 24/7/365 security. If he could simply buy two tickets on USAir or United to go from DC to NYC for himself and his wife, and their tickets to whichever show it is that he wanted to see, I'm sure that he would have no problem paying his own way.

That not being the case, as a result of the protections in place to protect the personal safety of the man and the protection of the nation's stability, I can't fathom how it's right to bitch about him getting out every now and again.

The portion of his date for he and Michelle on commercial aircraft might have been what, $2k? Tops?

[eva]

Are you guys absolutely sure he isn't billed for personal use of the jet, the tix, and the restaurant meal? Because I remember distinctly reading about Nancy Reagan's shock at getting a bill for the food of the house and some staff that were above and beyond the allowance of the house and personal use of the car and driver.

[Hawkyfan99]

Are you guys absolutely sure he isn't billed for personal use of the jet, the tix, and the restaurant meal? Because I remember distinctly reading about Nancy Reagan's shock at getting a bill for the food of the house and some staff that were above and beyond the allowance of the house and personal use of the car and driver.

I think that would be just as unreasonable, personally. For the reasons that I stated above. He chose to accept the burden that comes with being president, but I don't think that it's reasonable to bill him for it.

[Raven]

Don't we, the taxpayers, also provide security for past presidents and their families? Where is the bitching about that? I'm betting the cost for that is a lot more than 'date night' for the current prez.

[datkins1]

Are you guys absolutely sure he isn't billed for personal use of the jet, the tix, and the restaurant meal? Because I remember distinctly reading about Nancy Reagan's shock at getting a bill for the food of the house and some staff that were above and beyond the allowance of the house and personal use of the car and driver.

I don't know and it really doesn't matter to me. I think the man deserves a night out with his beautiful wife once in awhile regardless of who pays for it. I still can't believe this is even an issue.

[kingclick]

To the OP. The idea of having the rich donate to cover everyone's bills is a bit naive. I disagree with the concept of suggesting anyone "donate" money to the government, a government that we all reap the benefits from.

To the side bar of the President getting his groove on with the country's money....

I think the problem here is that he made it such a "Movie Star" event. He made sure that it wasn't just another "date night". I think someone in his administration is making some grave errors by encouraging the "Celebrity President" personna.

Presidents take vacations, have dates and are going to need protection while they do it. However everything doesn't need to be a photo-op.

[Yalita]

About Obama's date night. I think it would have been much better if he would have IDK flown there a day eailer than the date or stayed a day later to do some work or something. If he would have included his date night on a already needed trip I dont think anyone would have any issue. But considering as much traveling as he does to icorporate it into another activity would have been money much better spent.

I am curious how much all these parties he has costs us aswell. One on every wednesday I think I heard.

[abcNKH]

I don't know and it really doesn't matter to me. I think the man deserves a night out with his beautiful wife once in awhile regardless of who pays for it. I still can't believe this is even an issue.Date night is not the issue. The issue is increasing costs of this government and how to pay for that. Date night and the fact that the public paid for that cost just imflames that topic.

I don't even have an issue with his 'date night' - I think it sets a great example for people. But IMO, at the very least, he should have personally covered at least SOME of the cost. The security is already 24/7, so that is a moot point. But had the press found out, for instance, that he had personally paid the cost of the fuel to fly to NY on Air Force One, what a difference that would have made to how the public perceived this particular incident. Not much money for someone with his net worth, but it would show the public that he is willing to share the increasing costs of our government along with John Q.

[datkins1]

Date night is not the issue. The issue is increasing costs of this government and how to pay for that. Date night and the fact that the public paid for that cost just imflames that topic.

I don't even have an issue with his 'date night' - I think it sets a great example for people. But IMO, at the very least, he should have personally covered at least SOME of the cost. The security is already 24/7, so that is a moot point. But had the press found out, for instance, that he had personally paid the cost of the fuel to fly to NY on Air Force One, what a difference that would have made to how the public perceived this particular incident. Not much money for someone with his net worth, but it would show the public that he is willing to share the increasing costs of our government along with John Q.

We don't know that he didn't cover some of the cost. But again, he's our president and if he wants to go out once in awhile with his wife, so be it. Where was the complaint when Bush took all his vacations? You do realize he used Airforce one 77 times to go to his ranch in Crawford don't you? You think that didn't cost tax payer money? As much as I despised and continue to despise that man, never once did I complain about the cost of his vacationing. I complained about the amount of his vacationing, but never the cost. I myself have some bones to pick with this new president, but this ain't one of them. There are much bigger things to be concerned about.

[abcNKH]

We don't know that he didn't cover some of the cost. But again, he's our president and if he wants to go out once in awhile with his wife, so be it. Where was the complaint when Bush took all his vacations? You do realize he used Airforce one 77 times to go to his ranch in Crawford don't you? You think that didn't cost tax payer money? As much as I despised and continue to despise that man, never once did I complain about the cost of his vacationing. I complained about the amount of his vacationing, but never the cost. I myself have some bones to pick with this new president, but this ain't one of them. There are much bigger things to be concerned about.But isn't the cost of running this country and the deficit one of the biggest things we are concerned about? I am certainly concerned about it. When Obama is spending billions of dollars for bailouts and healthcare and such, with no end in sight that I can see, then I just think that it is about time that EVERY ASPECT of how our government spends money should be questioned.

We complained about bailed-out companies who gave bonuses to executives, to the point of demanding that bonus money be returned. What was the basis of those complaints? Wasting taxpayers money. But for some reason, we don't question Mr. Obama's (or any president before him) personal spending. Isn't that just as much taxpayer money as the bailout money is? Shouldn't it be questioned and scrutinized just the same?

How do we ever hope to get the budget under control in the future when we don't even question what is being spent today?

[datkins1]

But isn't the cost of running this country and the deficit one of the biggest things we are concerned about? I am certainly concerned about it. When Obama is spending billions of dollars for bailouts and healthcare and such, with no end in sight that I can see, then I just think that it is about time that EVERY ASPECT of how our government spends money should be questioned.

We complained about bailed-out companies who gave bonuses to executives, to the point of demanding that bonus money be returned. What was the basis of those complaints? Wasting taxpayers money. But for some reason, we don't question Mr. Obama's (or any president before him) personal spending. Isn't that just as much taxpayer money as the bailout money is? Shouldn't it be questioned and scrutinized just the same?

How do we ever hope to get the budget under control in the future when we don't even question what is being spent today?

All very good questions. Where were they when Bush was tripling the debt, and taking all of his trips? Or did we just not care, because the melt down hadn't happened yet and we wern't affected? All I'm trying to say is I don't think it's fair for us to attack this president for wanting to spend an evening with his wife. You see it as wasted money. I see it as recharging his batteries.

[abcNKH]

All very good questions. Where were they when Bush was tripling the debt, and taking all of his trips? Or did we just not care, because the melt down hadn't happened yet and we wern't affected? All I'm trying to say is I don't think it's fair for us to attack this president for wanting to spend an evening with his wife. You see it as wasted money. I see it as recharging his batteries.I am not attacking him, I am questioning why the taxpayers footed the bill. I am questioning how he is spending taxpayer money, when clearly the deficit is out of control and why he doesn't show the American people that he too will watch what he spends while he is asking us to tighten our belts. I believe it is not only my right, but my obligation...

But back to the OP, is there a way to pay for national health care without increasing taxes on John Q Public? From what I heard on the news yesterday, the cost is going to be quite a bit more than what was thought.

Is it fair to ask those with personal wealth to pay more, or even finance the majority of the cost? Should we tell the government to just quit all but basic spending? Does national health care include 12 million or more illegal immigrants in the US? Why didn't we do health insurance before bailouts? Seems like that should have been the higher priority.

Or do we just blindly accept that this is something that John Q has to pay for in addition to everything else?

[flygirl]

Date night is not the issue. The issue is increasing costs of this government and how to pay for that. Date night and the fact that the public paid for that cost just imflames that topic.

I don't even have an issue with his 'date night' - I think it sets a great example for people. But IMO, at the very least, he should have personally covered at least SOME of the cost. The security is already 24/7, so that is a moot point. But had the press found out, for instance, that he had personally paid the cost of the fuel to fly to NY on Air Force One, what a difference that would have made to how the public perceived this particular incident. Not much money for someone with his net worth, but it would show the public that he is willing to share the increasing costs of our government along with John Q.

VERY roughly (there are a number of contributing factors) air force one burns about a gallon of fuel a second. A second. About (again, VERY roughly) A mile for every 5 gallons. It's about 200 miles from DC to NY. Round trip I'm assuming. So 2,000 gallons of jet fuel. I'm assuming it burns jet A-1, not to be confused with avgas. Last time I was at Dulles (prices vary by region) Jet A was 5.80 a gallon. SO, eleven and a half grand or so for gas.
That's a LOT for an individual, and next to nothing split between the rest of us.
NKH, what if you had to pay for the paving of the street right in front of your house? The wires that carry power to it, and the pipes that carry water to it? How about paying your mailman for your daily mail delivery?
I think if the press told me that Obama paid for his own jet fuel I'd think he was nuts and the world would think we were penurious.

[Yalita]

Well considering he was watching how other people spent their goverment money and came down on the parties and the bonus's and other things he should at least do the same.

Part of bieng the president is seting the example you want others to abide by since the president is also spending our money. He wants other rich people to share their wealth shouldnt he start wih himself?

And as my Grandma said "if you watch your pennies, the dollars take care of themself"

[abcNKH]

To the OP. The idea of having the rich donate to cover everyone's bills is a bit naive. I disagree with the concept of suggesting anyone "donate" money to the government, a government that we all reap the benefits from.why is that naive? We as tax-paying citizens "donate" to cover welfare and such every day - not only for US Citizens, but for illegal immigrants as well. I am simply asking if those with personal wealth should be taxed more to pay for national health care. A one-time 5% tax for someone with millions or billions of dollars is a drop in the bucket for them. Our taxes are supposed to be based on ability to pay, and those with personal wealth are certainly more able to pay than someone who brings home even $100K/year.

eleven and a half grand or so for gas.
That's a LOT for an individual, and next to nothing split between the rest of us.
NKH, what if you had to pay for the paving of the street right in front of your house? The wires that carry power to it, and the pipes that carry water to it? How about paying your mailman for your daily mail delivery?
I think if the press told me that Obama paid for his own jet fuel I'd think he was nuts and the world would think we were penurious.That is not a lot for someone with a net worth of over a million dollars. And I DO pay for the paving of the street right in fron of me and the wires that carry power to it and that pipes that carry water and the mailman for my daily delivery. These costs are in my taxes, electric bill and water bill. These costs are and should be shared by those who benefit from such things. But how did we benefit from his date night? That is a personal expense for 2 people being paid for by taxpayers who believe that government spending is totally out of control.

[flygirl]

These costs are in my taxes, electric bill and water bill. These costs are and should be shared by those who benefit from such things. But how did we benefit from his date night? That is a personal expense for 2 people being paid for by taxpayers who believe that government spending is totally out of control. BINGO!
Almost no salaried job is valued by the salary alone. In many the perks in the contract hold equal importance. Getting to use the 'company' jet is part of the perks of being POTUS. Of course our taxes pay for it. It's part of what we pay for him to do the job.

[abcNKH]

BINGO!
Almost no salaried job is valued by the salary alone. In many the perks in the contract hold equal importance. Getting to use the 'company' jet is part of the perks of being POTUS. Of course our taxes pay for it. It's part of what we pay for him to do the job.But what I am saying is that we, as the people who are paying for that jet, especially in light of the current national debt, have not only every RIGHT to question how it is being used, but a RESPONSIBILITY to do so. WE are footing the bill, and our budget is OUT OF CONTROL. The bank I work for recently just stopped paying in to our private pension fund because they needed to cut costs. There goes a perk I have always had. Perks are just that - extras. And when the budget needs an overhaul - those are the first things that should be cut out - whether it is my own personal budget or my company's budget or the budget of the federal government.

[flygirl]

NKH, I agree our budget is out of control. I believe Obama holds some responsibility as part of his job, and wearing the hat of POTUS to do a better job with it. What I do not believe is that his date will have any impact on that one way or the other.
What about the presidential retreats that all presidents take to Camp David several times a year since 1941. They take their families and guests and whoever they want. I'd venture to say that none of those little vacations cost the taxpayers any less money than Obama's 200 mile flight to NYC. Nobody bitched about those trips, that I'm aware of.