Personal Space

[Shannie-Poo]

Yesterday when at the grocery store, I was checking out, the women behind me literally parked HER cart behind me (while I was paying) and was standing thisclosetome. I kept hitting her cart with my foot. I said "excuse me" she said sorry but didnt move her cart. What is up with people invading personal space? She was so close that she literally couldve been the one paying. I know I shouldve said something like "back the hell off", but Im not that type of person. Why do people feel the need to invade someones space like that? Is this a pet peeve of all people or am I just odd? LOL

[flygirl]

How rude. You should have just 'butt' up against the damn cart and bulldozed it back a couple of feet. She was ignoring the fact that she was crowding you, you would have been justified!

[kingclick]

Yesterday when at the grocery store, I was checking out, the women behind me literally parked HER cart behind me (while I was paying) and was standing thisclosetome. I kept hitting her cart with my foot. I said "excuse me" she said sorry but didnt move her cart. What is up with people invading personal space? She was so close that she literally couldve been the one paying. I know I shouldve said something like "back the hell off", but Im not that type of person. Why do people feel the need to invade someones space like that? Is this a pet peeve of all people or am I just odd? LOLI actually think this is some sort of "disorder" that people can have. It's probably not her fault and of course she wasn't doing it on purpose.

Still creeps the heck out of me when they get too close. You shoulda moved closer...that probably would have backed her off. Also you might wanna consider you smell nice and she wanted to get a better wiff!

[kingclick]

How rude. You should have just 'butt' up against the damn cart and bulldozed it back a couple of feet. She was ignoring the fact that she was crowding you, you would have been justified!

No she wouldn't. Ridiculous. You don't respond to "clueless rude" with antagonistic and physically violent rude. Just makes a bigger ass out of the person OVER REACTING.

[ArcticPhoenix]

Wow, Shannie-Poo and FG must not have very much contact with people from other societies. Our society is one of the few that values "personal space", and it's quite possible that HER idea of personal space was much different than YOUR personal space. She could simply have no idea how much space someone else wanted.

I come in contact with thousands of people on a daily basis. We're not all the same, and we don't all have the same needs/desires/wants... but the majority of people don't recognzie that, so we step on each others' toes inadvertantly. I applaud you for not saying anything to her, but try not to be upset about it... it's entirely plausible, and in fact even probable, that she wasn't intentionally "crowding" you and had NO idea that she was crowding you.

You don't know where she's from or her background, and making a snap judgment usually ends up making the one judging look like an asshole.

[IamwhoIam]

My cart always go between me and the person behind me. I always give the person in front of me at least a carts space between us. That way everyone gets the space they need.

[Shannie-Poo]

making a snap judgment usually ends up making the one judging look like an asshole.

I wasnt making any snap judgements. I was simply curious on every one elses comfort level.

I mentioned this to a grocery store cashier yesterday, she says she sees it all the time and how angry it makes the person whos being crowded. Most people dont say anything. But she said she thought it was rude.

I personally think she was rude. Its about common sense. Its rude to crowd other people when it is their turn in line. She may have had a different personal space boundry than I, but its also called MANNERS and she shouldve applied them.

[flygirl]

I wasnt making any snap judgements. I was simply curious on every one elses comfort level.
I do not like to be crowded, but my reaction depends on the situation. If it's a stranger, I politely ask them if they would please back off a step or two. That nearly always works.
If it's some cretin TRYING to make me uncomfortable they may find their instep smashed.
OTOH, the meat department manager of our local supermarket always sweeps me up in a bear hug. It makes my hubby just livid, but the guy's just a big, friendly guy and doesn't mean anything by it, so I just suffer through because it's a bad idea to hurt the feelings of the guy you buy your standing rib roasts from! :)

[Terrell]

I find it annoying too, but I haven't needed to resort to violence in those situations, but I'm fairly quick to tell someone they need to back off a little.

Though I am tempted, to do so I don't say "I'm not your long-lost brother, and I don't owe you money, so why are you all up under me?" It's especially annoying when I want to pay with my debit card, I don't need someone so close that I suspect them of trying to read my pin so I put my body between them and the card swipe thing.

[Raven]

Yesterday when at the grocery store, I was checking out, the women behind me literally parked HER cart behind me (while I was paying) and was standing thisclosetome. I kept hitting her cart with my foot. I said "excuse me" she said sorry but didnt move her cart. What is up with people invading personal space? She was so close that she literally couldve been the one paying. I know I shouldve said something like "back the hell off", but Im not that type of person. Why do people feel the need to invade someones space like that? Is this a pet peeve of all people or am I just odd? LOL
Oh goodness, this annoys me too! If "excuse me" doesn't work, I do move their cart back to a comfortable distance. Or if it is them, I will step back into them until they've moved back. I do not like people practically sitting on my shoulder when I am trying to get into my wallet or enter my PIN number. Besides rude, it is a safety precaution and have no problem saying so while making them move back

[JPSartre12]

Yesterday when at the grocery store, I was checking out, the women behind me literally parked HER cart behind me (while I was paying) and was standing thisclosetome. I kept hitting her cart with my foot. I said "excuse me" she said sorry but didnt move her cart. What is up with people invading personal space? She was so close that she literally couldve been the one paying. I know I shouldve said something like "back the hell off", but Im not that type of person. Why do people feel the need to invade someones space like that? Is this a pet peeve of all people or am I just odd? LOL

It happens to me all of the time when I'm fishing. It's typically Asians that will roll up next to you, invading your fishing zone. (Bass fishermen like to have ~30 yards on either side free to cast along the shoreline because that's where the bass are.)
I try not to get pissed and just move to another area while muttering something like "asshole" under my breath. I know that it's a cultural thing. Asians are so used to being asshole to elbow that it doesn't phase them.

Wow, Shannie-Poo and FG must not have very much contact with people from other societies. Our society is one of the few that values "personal space", and it's quite possible that HER idea of personal space was much different than YOUR personal space. She could simply have no idea how much space someone else wanted.

I come in contact with thousands of people on a daily basis. We're not all the same, and we don't all have the same needs/desires/wants... but the majority of people don't recognzie that, so we step on each others' toes inadvertantly. I applaud you for not saying anything to her, but try not to be upset about it... it's entirely plausible, and in fact even probable, that she wasn't intentionally "crowding" you and had NO idea that she was crowding you.

You don't know where she's from or her background, and making a snap judgment usually ends up making the one judging look like an asshole.

The flip side is that some people are just ignorant asses. The key is in determining which is which. ;)

I do not like to be crowded, but my reaction depends on the situation. If it's a stranger, I politely ask them if they would please back off a step or two. That nearly always works.
If it's some cretin TRYING to make me uncomfortable they may find their instep smashed.
OTOH, the meat department manager of our local supermarket always sweeps me up in a bear hug. It makes my hubby just livid, but the guy's just a big, friendly guy and doesn't mean anything by it, so I just suffer through because it's a bad idea to hurt the feelings of the guy you buy your standing rib roasts from! :)

It's not a good idea to piss off the man with the meat cleaver. :werd:

[ArcticPhoenix]

I wasnt making any snap judgements. I was simply curious on every one elses comfort level.

I mentioned this to a grocery store cashier yesterday, she says she sees it all the time and how angry it makes the person whos being crowded. Most people dont say anything. But she said she thought it was rude.

I personally think she was rude. Its about common sense. Its rude to crowd other people when it is their turn in line. She may have had a different personal space boundry than I, but its also called MANNERS and she shouldve applied them.

She may have NO IDEA what *your* idea of "manners" is. It isn't about common sense, it's about cultural boundaries. She wasn't putting anyone in danger, she wasn't doing anything obviously stupid, she wasn't hurting anybody. She was merely a little too close according to you. You considered that to be "rude". But to her it may not have been rude at all, it probably was just the norm.

Let's take Japan, for example. In Japan, there are people whose main job it is just to PUSH people onto the subway trains, it's so jam-packed. They get paid to push people into the subway cars to make sure the doors can close. Complete strangers putting their hands on others, without permission. The people are so tight that EVERYONE is pushed up against one another. Now, what if she comes from an area like that? Say her father was in the military, and they moved around a lot and spent a lot of time in places like Korea, the Philippines, or Japan? You would be the one being quite unreasonable in getting upset over something that's so normal.

[Shannie-Poo]

She wasnt Asian, she wasnt Japanese, She wasnt Chinese, She wasnt African American. She was Caucasian. Blonde hair, blue eyes and terrible manners.

Your odd AP.

[ArcticPhoenix]

She wasnt Asian, she wasnt Japanese, She wasnt Chinese, She wasnt African American. She was Caucasian. Blonde hair, blue eyes and terrible manners.

Your odd AP.

Oh, so nobody that's ever lived in any of those countries have been Caucasian? How do you know she wasn't African-American? That must mean that NOBODY that's EVER lived in Africa has been white. Ever.

I'm odd? I'm not the one who believes that if you're white you must come from the U.S.A. or Canada.

I'm odd? I'm not the one who can't understand that "manners" comes down to cultural influences, and not some sort of worldwide standard that EVERYONE must abide to YOUR standard.

[IamwhoIam]

She wasn't Asian, she wasn't Japanese, She wasn't Chinese, She wasn't African American. She was Caucasian. Blonde hair, blue eyes and terrible manners.

Your odd AP.

Okay she was white. But was she American? Americans are not the only white people and people in Europe are a lot more friendly and personal space sharing then Americans in my experience.

You may very well be right and she just was being rude, but the others may be right as well with her just not understanding your personal space issue because not everyone has them.

Best option is make a personal space invader an impossibility by not giving them the space to invade.

[ArcticPhoenix]

Okay she was white. But was she American? Americans are not the only white people and people in Europe are a lot more friendly and personal space sharing then Americans in my experience.

You may very well be right and she just was being rude, but the others may be right as well with her just not understanding your personal space issue because not everyone has them.

Best option is make a personal space invader an impossibility by not giving them the space to invade.

There aren't many who go out of their way to be rude, though. I doubt that the woman was rude, I think Shannie was just coming to a snap decision. It's not her fault that she's ignorant of other peoples, it's just the way it is.

[Shannie-Poo]

I think Shannie was just coming to a snap decision. It's not her fault that she's ignorant of other peoples, it's just the way it is.

I think your ignorant to the fact that your an ass. Thats not a snap decision on my part btw.

[ArcticPhoenix]

I think your ignorant to the fact that your an ass. Thats not a snap decision on my part btw.

I'm not ignorant to the fact that I'm an ass, I freely admit to it and make an effort to keep it that way. And it's "you're", not "your". A girl in college should know better than that.

You still can't accept the possibility that this woman could have simply been from somewhere else. Or do you think we all think the same way, even in this country? Even if this woman was from the U.S., we're such a vastly diverse country, that she could have been from virtually anywhere within it. You came to a snap decision that she was being rude, without considering other possibilities.

I'm sorry if pointing out logical fallacies makes one an ass. I suppose I will wear the title with honor, though. Yes, Shannie has dubbed me The Great Ass.

[Matthew S]

Yesterday when at the grocery store, I was checking out, the women behind me literally parked HER cart behind me (while I was paying) and was standing thisclosetome. I kept hitting her cart with my foot. I said "excuse me" she said sorry but didnt move her cart. What is up with people invading personal space? She was so close that she literally couldve been the one paying. I know I shouldve said something like "back the hell off", but Im not that type of person. Why do people feel the need to invade someones space like that? Is this a pet peeve of all people or am I just odd? LOL

OMG I feel your pain. I hate the self checkouts for just that reason. The last time a man did that to me, I could feel his breath on my neck, I said "either get off my a## or F#ck it". What I usally do now is put a cart between and the other person.

[Book Wizard]

I need quite a bit of personal space normally. In places where I have to, I deal with no personal space, but I am horribly uncomfortable. I really don't care how they feel in other countries. I live in the USA. When I am elsewhere, I deal with it. I generally hate having people close to me. I know exactly how you feel, Shannie!

[Matthew S]

I'm not ignorant to the fact that I'm an ass, I freely admit to it and make an effort to keep it that way. And it's "you're", not "your". A girl in college should know better than that.

You still can't accept the possibility that this woman could have simply been from somewhere else. Or do you think we all think the same way, even in this country? Even if this woman was from the U.S., we're such a vastly diverse country, that she could have been from virtually anywhere within it. You came to a snap decision that she was being rude, without considering other possibilities.

I'm sorry if pointing out logical fallacies makes one an ass. I suppose I will wear the title with honor, though. Yes, Shannie has dubbed me The Great Ass.

Come now I don't care what culture you are from bummping someone with a cart is still not appropriate.

[kingclick]

Come now I don't care what culture you are from bummping someone with a cart is still not appropriate.Shannie wasn't bumped. She was crowded.

[Michele]

Here is what I think. We live in such an on the go all the time and always in a hurry society. Usually when people are all up your butt (whether it's tail gating in a car or overcrowding you in the check out line) it's because they are in a hurry.

I can't stand it when I'm in line at the check out and don't even have time to put my money away. The person behind me is already standing an inch from me, their cart is bumping my ankle and the check out person is already ringing things up. Why?

1-Because the check out person is usually rewarded with the number of "ring ups" they have per hour.

2-Because the person crowding you is in a hurry and using bad manners.

Either is unacceptable and rude.

[Book Wizard]

I am always careful to keep our cart away from other people. My husband usually stands in front of it. Getting too close to others is just plain rude if you are in line somewhere. Subway cars are different.

[IamwhoIam]

Easiest thing to do is get a cart no matter what, even if you only have to get 2 items, and always have it behind you when you are standing in line. That way people can only be as close as you will allow.

I forgot that rule of mine today and I had someone who literally was close enough that they were touching me and had their stuff under my arm. Stepping back accidentally fixed that though.

[ArcticPhoenix]

Here is what I think. We live in such an on the go all the time and always in a hurry society. Usually when people are all up your butt (whether it's tail gating in a car or overcrowding you in the check out line) it's because they are in a hurry.

I can't stand it when I'm in line at the check out and don't even have time to put my money away. The person behind me is already standing an inch from me, their cart is bumping my ankle and the check out person is already ringing things up. Why?

1-Because the check out person is usually rewarded with the number of "ring ups" they have per hour.

2-Because the person crowding you is in a hurry and using bad manners.

Either is unacceptable and rude.

Or 3) they don't think that it's rude because where they're from, strangers do inadvertently touch each other and it's not a big deal. ;)

[Terrell]

Or 3) they don't think that it's rude because where they're from, strangers do inadvertently touch each other and it's not a big deal. ;)

When in Rome...

On this issue they need to conform to the personal space requirements of the US if they're currently in the US. They also need to comply with the personal space requests of other people. If a person is all up in my face, when they're not someone I want there, I see it as a personal disrespect, and a violation of my person.

[ArcticPhoenix]

When in Rome...

On this issue they need to conform to the personal space requirements of the US if they're currently in the US. They also need to comply with the personal space requests of other people. If a person is all up in my face, when they're not someone I want there, I see it as a personal disrespect, and a violation of my person.

I agree wholeheartedly that one should adapt to the customs in whatever environment that you're in. I'm merely saying that there could be a reason for this woman's behavior, aside from the idea that she was simply "being rude".

[kingclick]

Or 3) they don't think that it's rude because where they're from, strangers do inadvertently touch each other and it's not a big deal. ;)

I think I have to agree with you. I find it strange that people who are usually so accepting of differing cultures and lifestyles are so quick to assume that everyone has the "American" sense of space.

Clearly this quote is from wiki so it isn't gospel in and of itself...but it does give references to the books where the information has come from...

Personal space is highly variable. Those who live in a densely populated environment tend to have smaller personal space requirements. Thus a resident of India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India) may have a smaller personal space than someone who is home on the Mongolian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolia) steppe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steppe), both in regard to home (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home) and individual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual).

To just assume that someone is "being rude" because they have a differing personal space than you would be like calling Europeans rude for kissing someone goodbye on the cheek.

.

[kingclick]

When in Rome...

On this issue they need to conform to the personal space requirements of the US if they're currently in the US. They also need to comply with the personal space requests of other people. If a person is all up in my face, when they're not someone I want there, I see it as a personal disrespect, and a violation of my person.People cannot know every single requirement and be obliged to erase years of "programming" and perfection.

So when you go to foreign countries you know every single custom?

[kingclick]

I agree wholeheartedly that one should adapt to the customs in whatever environment that you're in. I'm merely saying that there could be a reason for this woman's behavior, aside from the idea that she was simply "being rude".Yes we all should strive to adapt.

The irony is that this woman probably was just REALLY being clueless and didn't know that she was violating Shannies space. However we do have many people IN the US that PURPOSEFULLY choose to NOT adapt. We have had numerous discussions on this board about not adapting to the culture around them.

Baggy pants.
Tattoos.
Flip Flops.
Pledge.
Foul language.
Controlling children.
Homosexuality.
Racism.


Many of these discussions revolve around the concept of adapting to the culture around them.

I guess some people just thinks the culture should adapt to them instead of them adapting to the culture.

[Terrell]

People cannot know every single requirement and be obliged to erase years of "programming" and perfection.

So when you go to foreign countries you know every single custom?

I don't expect anyone to know every single custom, but I do expect that my personal space be respected especially if I point out to that person that they need to back off of me.

[kingclick]

I don't expect anyone to know every single custom, but I do expect that my personal space be respected especially if I point out to that person that they need to back off of me.I totally agree, if you tell someone please give me a little more space. However that doesn't make them RUDE if they don't get a cryptic passive aggressive comment.

[ArcticPhoenix]

I totally agree, if you tell someone please give me a little more space. However that doesn't make them RUDE if they don't get a cryptic passive aggressive comment.

This, and I'll add a bit more. There's a right way and a wrong way to let someone know they're doing something wrong in your society.

[Terrell]

I totally agree, if you tell someone please give me a little more space. However that doesn't make them RUDE if they don't get a cryptic passive aggressive comment.

I'm pretty straightforward if someone is in my personal space. I'll usually say something along the lines of "you're too close to me, you need to back off". The other statement I mentioned is what I'm tempted to say, not what I actually say. Another thing I've said in these situations is "A little personal space, please."

[kingclick]

This, and I'll add a bit more. There's a right way and a wrong way to let someone know they're doing something wrong in your society.

Do you think the RIGHT way is to ram your cart into theirs and be physically violent? Or how about pushing on their cart until it is as far away as you would like it?

My guess is no...and that those responses are actually worse then the original offense.

[kingclick]

I'm pretty straightforward if someone is in my personal space. I'll usually say something along the lines of "you're too close to me, you need to back off". The other statement I mentioned is what I'm tempted to say, not what I actually say.
Do you say please at least? Saying "you need to back off" sounds more like a threat to me. And honestly if someone said this to me I would consider THEM much more rude than someone who cluelessly got too close. veiled threats are a big no no.

[Terrell]

Do you say please at least? Saying "you need to back off" sounds more like a threat to me. And honestly if someone said this to me I would consider THEM much more rude than someone who cluelessly got too close. veiled threats are a big no no.

That's hardly a threat. Saying something along the lines of "If you don't back off from me, we're going to be some fighting MF's up in here" would be a threat. Tone of voice also matters in such situations.

[IamwhoIam]

Having lived in many places there is no personal space requirements in the US. Each person has their own requirements which is why it is each persons responsibility to make sure their space is not invaded.

In the south they are more huggy touchy feely then in the north, the west is more kiss each other hello and goodbye then the east. There is not average typical stands for everyone requirement though. Shoot people in the same family have different views and requirements in regards to their personal space needs.

I do agree that if a request to back off and it is not done then that is rude. But being themselves and doing what they do and no one saying anything or just being violent in return is not rude. The rude one is the one who escalates it to a physical act.

[Raven]

personally, I see nothing wrong with moving the cart if that is what is crowding you. It is no different than being forced to move a cart blocking an aisle while shopping. Some people are so clueless that even repeated 'excuse me's don't prompt them to move their own cart. Rather than stand there forever, I move it enough that I can get by. I don't consider that rude nor an act of physical aggression. In a check-out line, if they've jammed their cart into my space so much that I can't maneuvar, and they ignore the "excuse me" - again, I will move the cart. Otherwise, we can all stand there all day since I can't reach the card reader because "clueless" behind me has already crowded me past it. And yes, that has happened many times.

Someone's suggestion of always keeping my cart behind me is a good one. Where I've found the biggest problem is that I will start bagging my own groceries to help speed things along, so I pull my cart through. It seems that all too often "clueless" behind me takes that as a signal to take up position right in front of the cashier, hovering over the card reader while MY groceries are still being checked out. And then won't move! And again, I'm not going to have someone peering over my shoulder while I am putting in my pin number. So one way or another, they need to step back.

And if KC thinks that's rude, I really don't care :lol: