speaking of death threats

[abcNKH]

Police have arrested a 14-year-old boy who threatened to kill classmates at Seton Catholic High School in Chandler, police said Thursday.

On Wednesday students in a class at Seton witnessed the boy writing comments in his journal about his desire to kill several students at the school and making a hand gesture simulating a gun pointed to his head, police said.
Students reported him to a teacher, who notified staff, said Det. Frank Mendoza, a Chandler police spokesman. The staff then called police to the school at 11:42 a.m.

Police interviewed the boy, who admitted to writing the entries in the journal, Mendoza said.

The boy was booked into the Maricopa County Juvenile Detention Center on suspicion of interference with an educational institution, police said.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/chandler/articles/0927cr-threat0928.html

Ms. K and I were discussing this. She thinks it is right. I disagree - I think this is the thought police. He did not threaten anyone or do anything to act on his 'desire to kill'. He simply wrote his thoughts in a journal. They want to keep a close eye on him, I have no issue with that. But I just think it is wrong to arrest someone for writing down their thoughts when no action has been taken to act on those thoughts. After all, don't all best selling books, including those which portray murder and violence, start by someone writing down their thoughts?

[Pops In]

Arrest seems a bit strong. Get him to see a doctor might be more appropriate.

[abcNKH]

Arrest seems a bit strong. Get him to see a doctor might be more appropriate.didn't you ever think you wanted to kill someone - especially when you were a teenager? I think it is a normal thought for most people at some time in their life.

[holychicken]

IMO, way less of a death threat than the nooses in the trees. I agree with Pops, certainly I think the school should step in and do something, but I think he needs help, not punishment.

[Pops In]

didn't you ever think you wanted to kill someone - especially when you were a teenager? I think it is a normal thought for most people at some time in their life.Not that I can recall. I might not be considered normal though. :)

[PlayBall40]

I did

[abcNKH]

IMO, way less of a death threat than the nooses in the trees. I agree with Pops, certainly I think the school should step in and do something, but I think he needs help, not punishment.help for what? To learn that writing down thoughts is somehow wrong?

[kingclick]

http://www.azcentral.com/community/chandler/articles/0927cr-threat0928.html

Ms. K and I were discussing this. She thinks it is right. I disagree - I think this is the thought police. He did not threaten anyone or do anything to act on his 'desire to kill'.This is false. He made a hand gesture. That is a form of communication and IS a threat, coupled with the journal, it is an appropriate response. He simply wrote his thoughts in a journal. They want to keep a close eye on him, I have no issue with that. But I just think it is wrong to arrest someone for writing down their thoughts when no action has been taken to act on those thoughts. After all, don't all best selling books, including those which portray murder and violence, start by someone writing down their thoughts?Yes. But those thoughts aren't about specific people and aren't coupled with threatening communication.

[kingclick]

Not that I can recall. I might not be considered normal though. :)

Me neither! I have never wanted to kill someone. Just the idea of having those kind of thoughts creeps me out.

[abcNKH]

This is false. He made a hand gesture. at HIMSELF - not anyone he wrote about... Have you never made a gun gesture with your fingers? Is there a teenage boy in this country who hasn't done that?That is a form of communication and IS a threat, coupled with the journal, it is an appropriate response. Communication? It was his own private journal, he was not communicating to anyone - someone looked over his shoulder to see what he was writing. And he wasn't even arrested for the 'threat'. He was arrested for interfering with education. If we arrested all kids who interfered with education, our schools would be practically empty...

Having thoughts and writing them down simply should NOT be criminal. I have thoughts all the time which I would never act on. I have even written them down on occasion. This does not make me a criminal.

[holychicken]

help for what? To learn that writing down thoughts is somehow wrong?
If he is writing down that he wants to kill people and is making suicide gestures, it is likely he needs some help. If it was just a one time thing, then whatever, the psychiatric help can determine that and send him on his way.

[kingclick]

at HIMSELF - not anyone he wrote about... Have you never made a gun gesture with your fingers?Yes. but I have never written in my journal about killing my classmates. The gesture is just like sliding your thumb across your own neck. It communicates a threat. Is there a teenage boy in this country who hasn't done that?Communication? It was his own private journal, he was not communicating to anyone - someone looked over his shoulder to see what he was writing.Except for when he made the hand gesture. And gestures ARE communication. And he wasn't even arrested for the 'threat'. He was arrested for interfering with education. If we arrested all kids who interfered with education, our schools would be practically empty...

Having thoughts and writing them down simply should NOT be criminal. I have thoughts all the time which I would never act on. I have even written them down on occasion. This does not make me a criminal.But making threats would, and by his hand gestures he made threats. Simple.

[abcNKH]

. And guestures ARE communication. But making threats would, and by his hand gestures he made threats.I have to wonder how many teenage boys have been arrested for making such a gesture. My grandsons and nephews play like that quite often. It seems normal to me.

[kingclick]

I have to wonder how many teenage boys have been arrested for making such a gesture. My grandsons and nephews play like that quite often. It seems normal to me.So do your Grandsons and Nephews have journals detail how they want to kill each other?

You seem to be intentionally ignoring that this is a two point issue. With only one point the problem isn't there. However with BOTH points. It is an issue.

The threat AND the journal detailing the killing of fellow students.

I'm sure you would be the first to bitch if this boy had killed these students and administration had done nothing.

[abcNKH]

So do your Grandsons and Nephews have journals detail how they want to kill each other?there were no DETAILs, only that he would like to kill them - which I just don't see as all that threatening, even combined with a 'finger gun'. I remember writing in my own journal that I would like to kill my ex, followed by a severe beating of a throw rug to vent my frustrations. That doesn't mean that I had any intention of actually DOING it, it is a thought that I wrote down.You seem to be intentionally ignoring that this is a two point issue. With only one point the problem isn't there. However with BOTH points. It is an issue.

I'm sure you would be the first to bitch if this boy had killed these students and administration had done nothing.I didn't say they should do NOTHING. I would bitch if they saw the signs and ignored them. Do they need to keep an eye on this kid and discuss it with him? Probably a good idea. However, I think it is wrong to arrest someone for writing down their thoughts in their own private journal and making a gesture that boys all over this country make every single day without incident. If he was out trying to purchase a gun, or hiding a knife in his locker, that is a different thing. But these are both normal everyday activities and no one deserves to be arrested for that.

[abcNKH]

And to drive home the point that these were not all that serious, they didn't even charge him with anything relating to the 'threats'. They charged him with interfering with education. What the hell is THAT???

[Jory]

Kleibold (?) and Harris of columbine expressed desire to kill several people through their journals too...and then they followed through. In case you've forgotten that, there were also warning signs from the Virginia Tech student too. The moment a school ignores this and something does happen, everyone will be crying why wasn't something done. yes, it is interfering with education when teachers and students have to deal with this crap. Yes, he needs to be helped too, and I hope he is. DDs school, if you say you are going to kill someone you are suspended for 10 days and made to meet with the superintendant and school councelors for an eval.

[abcNKH]

Kleibold (?) and Harris of columbine expressed desire to kill several people through their journals too...and then they followed through. In case you've forgotten that, there were also warning signs from the Virginia Tech student too. The moment a school ignores this and something does happen, everyone will be crying why wasn't something done. yes, it is interfering with education when teachers and students have to deal with this crap. Yes, he needs to be helped too, and I hope he is. DDs school, if you say you are going to kill someone you are suspended for 10 days and made to meet with the superintendant and school councelors for an eval.So suspend him, send him to a counselor to evaluate his mindset. Keep an eye on him, look for other signs. Don't ARREST him for some stupid charge about interfering with education which you can bet will never be proven if it came down to a trial. It might very well be simply that he wrote down his thoughts. I would bet that tons of HS kids, especially freshmen who are just trying to find their place, wish they could kill someone. Only a very few actually mean it, and even fewer actually try to follow thru with it.

How is it different than me, in the midst of my divorce, saying that I would like to kill my ex?

We teach our kids to be honest about their feelings, and then arrest them when they do just that. They just can't win...

[Matthew S]

He is just following the bible and carrying out Gods laws as stated in levitcus.

[Raven]

So suspend him, send him to a counselor to evaluate his mindset. Keep an eye on him, look for other signs. Don't ARREST him for some stupid charge about interfering with education which you can bet will never be proven if it came down to a trial. It might very well be simply that he wrote down his thoughts. I would bet that tons of HS kids, especially freshmen who are just trying to find their place, wish they could kill someone. Only a very few actually mean it, and even fewer actually try to follow thru with it.

How is it different than me, in the midst of my divorce, saying that I would like to kill my ex?

We teach our kids to be honest about their feelings, and then arrest them when they do just that. They just can't win...
so far this evening all I've done is read the various threads and agree with NKH :lol :cheer: :trophy:

[Jory]

So suspend him, send him to a counselor to evaluate his mindset. Keep an eye on him, look for other signs. Don't ARREST him for some stupid charge about interfering with education which you can bet will never be proven if it came down to a trial. It might very well be simply that he wrote down his thoughts. I would bet that tons of HS kids, especially freshmen who are just trying to find their place, wish they could kill someone. Only a very few actually mean it, and even fewer actually try to follow thru with it.

How is it different than me, in the midst of my divorce, saying that I would like to kill my ex?

We teach our kids to be honest about their feelings, and then arrest them when they do just that. They just can't win...

And every child in every school that I know of knows there is zero tolerance for terroristic threats. Ya wanna write that stuff by all means, do it. Just keep it at home. Once it is at a school, the safety of others comes first. If he were suspended and meant what he said about killing people, he could come back to school. Being arrested or institutionalized in some way, would keep him away from the school. Who knows what this kid's history is too. Maybe there is more to the story.

[kingclick]

How is it different than me, in the midst of my divorce, saying that I would like to kill my ex?


The difference is that you aren't in school. duh. That is why they charged him with what they did!

[Jokimoto]

Send him to Room 101.