View Full Version : If your friend was to give a baby up for adoption.....
If you had a friend who had just given birth to her 5th baby and decided to give it up for adoption, how would you react?
Your friend is in a stable relationship and has more than enough income to support 5 children. She and her partner decide they very simply don't want 5 children, too much work etc.
Michele
09-06-2007, 11:20 AM
My gut reaction is what the hell happened to birth control? However, if they don't want the child, chances are it's better off with a family that does want it.
flygirl
09-06-2007, 11:29 AM
I think I'd at least have to ask her if she'd thought about her other children, and how they will feel , knowing that they have a sibling out there that they don't know, and who doesn't know them. Other than that, I guess there wouldn't be much I could say. That wouldn't stop me from being appalled though.
Would you both continue to be her friend? Say she was one of your best friends.
Terrell
09-06-2007, 11:33 AM
What Michele said.
Accidents happen. How many people here have accidental kids. Birth control is only effective most of the time, not all the time.
flygirl
09-06-2007, 11:58 AM
Would you both continue to be her friend? Say she was one of your best friends.
God, I don't know! I'm trying to imagine it. I know first hand there's such a thing as BC failure. That's why there's 11 years between my two youngest. While I briefly considered abortion at the time, I can't imagine giving him away! I guess it would depend on why she felt she absolutely couldn't raise another child. Would it send her over the edge? Or does she just not want to deal with the mess and lack of sleep. I can't picture it at all I guess. Does this situation ever actually happen?
Does this situation ever actually happen?
Yes. My friend had a baby 7 years ago. She was in a shared room with THREE others. Two of the three were giving their children up or adoption. One was a 14yr old girl, the other was a woman who already had 3 children and told my friend they just never wanted a family bigger than 5. There was no money worries, her husband seemed very loving towards her and the other children that came to visit her.
flygirl
09-06-2007, 01:22 PM
Yes. ... a woman who already had 3 children and told my friend they just never wanted a family bigger than 5. There was no money worries, her husband seemed very loving towards her and the other children that came to visit her.
WOW. Still, we don't know if the woman had mental health issues that threatened, or something of that nature, (although on the face of it, it would seem not). There are other barriers to raising children beyond the financial considerations. However, if that was it...the only reason..."we never planned on having a family larger than five", then no, I can't see myself being interested in having a woman like that for a friend. I wouldn't make a production of it. I'd just become 'unavailable' I've done it before.
abcNKH
09-06-2007, 03:18 PM
I think that giving up a child for adoption is harder than abortion or raising it yourself. And if this was my friend, and she had decided that was the best course of action, I would support her in whatever way that I could.
Ditto nkh. I wouldn't judge someone who had an abortion and I wouldn't judge someone who gave up the child. Adoption is a completely unselfish thing. If the baby is healthy, it is going to make a couple very happy.
As far as the other kids are concerned, if you are open and honest with them they will feel secure. Perhaps for the female children it will even help dispell myths about motherhood and that instant magical maternal bonding bs that ALL women are supposed to have. Well, many enough women don't but god forbid they actually admit it.
flygirl
09-07-2007, 06:53 AM
As far as the other kids are concerned, if you are open and honest with them they will feel secure. Perhaps for the female children it will even help dispell myths about motherhood and that instant magical maternal bonding bs that ALL women are supposed to have. Well, many enough women don't but god forbid they actually admit it.
Hey, I don't think 'that instant magical maternal bonding' is BS. I think MOST women do experience it. I know that there are women who do not and I don't think less of them, but I would still worry about the other kids. I don't think that seeing mom giving away one of her kids is going to make them feel all that secure about how important they, themselves, are to her. A baby is not a puppy.
abcNKH
09-07-2007, 09:29 AM
I don't think that seeing mom giving away one of her kids is going to make them feel all that secure about how important they, themselves, are to her.As with any other major event, the kids will handle it differently depending on how you talk with them about it. First, it is not MOM giving up HER kid, it is MOM AND DAD giving up THEIR kid. That must be made clear to the children. If they concentrate on how happy they are as a family and the fact that this child may make another couple happy as a family, and leave the door open to any discussion on the topic, then I think that the kids would probably handle it just fine.
flygirl
09-07-2007, 09:36 AM
First, it is not MOM giving up HER kid, it is MOM AND DAD giving up THEIR kid. That must be made clear to the children.
...and that's supposed to make them feel better how? It's better that it's BOTH parents giving away their child and not just one?
You're right though, kids handle things differently. My teen has two friends, brothers 14, and 15, who lost a two year old brother to meningitis 9 years ago. The 14 year old still actively mourns that baby, and the 15 year old is hard pressed to remember the child's middle name!
holychicken
09-07-2007, 10:08 AM
If I were a parent and I did this I would use it as leverage against the other kids.
"You don't eat your peas and I will ship you off like I did your little brother!"
or
"I have shipped off children for doing less than that. Remember, I shipped your little brother off just for causing mom to go through a long labor!"
That'll learn 'em.
abcNKH
09-07-2007, 10:14 AM
...and that's supposed to make them feel better how? this fact in and of itself is not going to make anyone feel better. But there can be no adoption without both parents signing on the dotted line, and it isn't fair to make mom out to be a bad guy in this scenario.
My teen has two friends, brothers 14, and 15, who lost a two year old brother to meningitis 9 years ago. The 14 year old still actively mourns that baby, and the 15 year old is hard pressed to remember the child's middle name!there is a big difference in the death of a child and the adoption of a child. In death, there can be nothing but sadness. In adoption, there is the happiness of the adoptive parents to bring an aspect of goodness into it.
kingclick
09-07-2007, 10:49 AM
Depends on the friend.
justGina
09-07-2007, 07:40 PM
I would be sad, but I would support her and I would respect her more for not taking the easy way out and aborting.
I would respect her, but I think it would put a strain on the friendship because it's such a different decision than I would make.
I don't think instant maternal bonding is bs - it may not always happen that way, but it very often (probably most often) does.
rianna
09-07-2007, 08:30 PM
Wow. I actually have a friend who gave up a baby for adoption under somewhat different circumstances. She already had 2 children by 2 different fathers, she was married to their fathers. She wasn't married to the father of the 3rd and didn't feel she could raise the child by herself, and didn't feel her family would be accepting of it and help any. She didn't feel that she was a good mother as it was.
In any event, we were friends in school before any of this happened to her, and I honestly don't feel her reproductive choices are any of my business. I don't know what I would have done in her shoes.
As with any other major event, the kids will handle it differently depending on how you talk with them about it. First, it is not MOM giving up HER kid, it is MOM AND DAD giving up THEIR kid. That must be made clear to the children. If they concentrate on how happy they are as a family and the fact that this child may make another couple happy as a family, and leave the door open to any discussion on the topic, then I think that the kids would probably handle it just fine.
Exactly on the bolded. What if this couple wanted to be surrogates to someone but had to use their own egg and sperm donation? Wouldn't that be the same thing? Don't many surrogate parents have children already? How does that affect the kids? I think the kids would be fine if everyone else kept their own feelings from being inflicted on the kids.
I would respect her, but I think it would put a strain on the friendship because it's such a different decision than I would make.
I don't understand this line of thinking.
I don't think instant maternal bonding is bs - it may not always happen that way, but it very often (probably most often) does.
I didn't say that instant maternal bonding is BS. I said that it is BS that ALL women have it. I even capitalized my qualifier of ALL in the original sentence too. Many women do not bond instantly with their infants and for many different reasons from the small to the great.
Sorry, Jory, tired...reading fast...I'm sure it doesn't happen that way for everyone all the time and that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with mom.
I don't understand what you don't get. It's hard to keep things light and airy when you feel so differently about things than a friend. Like...my friend wants to leave her husband because he just doesn't do it for her anymore. She wants someone with more pizazz, more money, less weight...whatever. She has children. I can respect that it's her choice to leave her husband, but it's always going to be there between us - that I would never do that. It's always going to be in the air between us - or at least for a long time - that I could never give up a child except under the most dire of circumstances. It's always going to be there that we are so very different in our values...it will strain the friendship.
JPSartre12
09-07-2007, 10:39 PM
If you had a friend who had just given birth to her 5th baby and decided to give it up for adoption, how would you react?
Your friend is in a stable relationship and has more than enough income to support 5 children. She and her partner decide they very simply don't want 5 children, too much work etc.
I'd read her the riot act in a NY minute.
abcNKH
09-08-2007, 10:06 AM
I'd read her the riot act in a NY minute.why? Do you expect your friends to make all the same decisions as you? Is your friendship dependent on that? Would you assume your friend hadn't thought it thru? And why read the riot act HER? It is the father's decision as much as it is hers.
Is there something WRONG with giving up a child for adoption? Would you read her the riot act if she decided to abort?
She finds herself pregnant unexpectedly and does not want another child. This couple has made a choice of adoption over abortion, and people seem to think that she is a terrible person for it.
If I was the friend and you read me the riot act, I would be the one ending the friendship. A person's choice is their own choice, no one else's. I don't need friends who are judgemental of my choices. I want true friends - who will be my friend no matter what.
kingclick
09-08-2007, 10:16 AM
why? Do you expect your friends to make all the same decisions as you? Is your friendship dependent on that? Would you assume your friend hadn't thought it thru? And why read the riot act HER? It is the father's decision as much as it is hers.
Is there something WRONG with giving up a child for adoption? Would you read her the riot act if she decided to abort?
She finds herself pregnant unexpectedly and does not want another child. This couple has made a choice of adoption over abortion, and people seem to think that she is a terrible person for it.
If I was the friend and you read me the riot act, I would be the one ending the friendship. A person's choice is their own choice, no one else's. I don't need friends who are judgemental of my choices. I want true friends - who will be my friend no matter what.
I don't think for JP it's being judgmental, I think it has more to do with being controlling. We are all judgmental of the people around us...it's how we handle our judgments that makes us either dicks or good friends.
why? Do you expect your friends to make all the same decisions as you? Is your friendship dependent on that? Would you assume your friend hadn't thought it thru? And why read the riot act HER? It is the father's decision as much as it is hers.
Is there something WRONG with giving up a child for adoption? Would you read her the riot act if she decided to abort?
She finds herself pregnant unexpectedly and does not want another child. This couple has made a choice of adoption over abortion, and people seem to think that she is a terrible person for it.
ditto to everything here and the bolded is what I can't understand about eva's post. I have friends that have made decisions that I don't respect but those same people, in other aspects of their life have made wonderful decisions that have benefitted others. I can't judge someone as worthy of being a friend for some of the extremely personal and emotional decisions they make when there are so many other factors about a person that come into play. If every decisions or even MOST of their decisions and actions are drama filled or heartache filled, I can see distancing myself from that toxicity. I can't imagine abandoning a friend when they're going through a life changing challenge, unless it is a heinous crime such as rape or abuse. To me, adoption is not immoral. It is a very loving thing they're doing. I just can't understand why it is so bad.
I said I'd respect her, but it would strain the friendship. I wouldn't impose my judgement on her, but it would put a brick in the wall. I don't have to make all the same decisions as my friends, but it's hard to be really close with someone that you disagree with on matters that are important to you. Like I would be friends with a republican, but it would be hard to be the best of friends. I don't think giving away a child for adoption is immoral, but it seems rather harsh when you can care for that child and just don't want to.
abcNKH
09-08-2007, 02:11 PM
I said I'd respect her, but it would strain the friendship. I wouldn't impose my judgement on her, but it would put a brick in the wall. I don't have to make all the same decisions as my friends, but it's hard to be really close with someone that you disagree with on matters that are important to you. Like I would be friends with a republican, but it would be hard to be the best of friends. I don't think giving away a child for adoption is immoral, but it seems rather harsh when you can care for that child and just don't want to.out of curiosity, are you pro-life? I don't remember, but you are quite conservative, so that would make sense to me. If you are pro-life, why wouldn't you be more than thrilled that your friend made the choice of adoption rather than abortion? A choice that IMO, is the hardest choice of all when faced with an unwanted pregnancy.
I don't remember, but you are quite conservative, so that would make sense to me. If you are pro-life, why wouldn't you be more than thrilled that your friend made the choice of adoption rather than abortion? A choice that IMO, is the hardest choice of all when faced with an unwanted pregnancy
I am pro-choice, but anti-abortion. I don't want it to be illegal because of the larger ramifications and because it is impossible to know for sure when life begins. That being said, I do believe personally that life begins at conception and that abortion kills a baby. I could not do it, but I also can't tell other women what to do - legally. But I might disapprove of them morally, particularly if they are in the position to raise a child and just can't face the responsibility. It's not that I feel this choice - of the op - is immoral, but rather that it is something *I* could never do. If I could raise my child, I would raise my child. It would never be about "not wanting" a child - to me, that is immaterial. Once you have the child, you love it, whether it was planned or wanted at conception or not. Like I said, I would just always feel we were so very different at core that it would put a brick in the wall.
justGina
09-08-2007, 04:39 PM
Click said dick. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/justGina74/giggle.gif
Once you have the child, you love it, whether it was planned or wanted at conception or not. .
Not everyone does. This would be another one of those myths when you make a broad statement. We don't know all the reasons why this couple would choose to adopt and there might be some very good reasons. Obviously they think they have a good reason and they are the best people to make that call since it affects noone else but their own family. Well, I guess it would affect the adoptors, but that would be in a good way.
ArcticPhoenix
09-08-2007, 05:41 PM
If you had a friend who had just given birth to her 5th baby and decided to give it up for adoption, how would you react?
Your friend is in a stable relationship and has more than enough income to support 5 children. She and her partner decide they very simply don't want 5 children, too much work etc.
How would I react? "Dude, you've already got 4 kids. 1 more isn't going to make a bit of difference, really.
I'd say this is a pretty unreasonable hypothetical question.
abcNKH
09-08-2007, 11:05 PM
I don't think giving away a child for adoption is immoral, but it seems rather harsh when you can care for that child and just don't want to.So do you think the only valid reason for giving up a child for adoption is financial?
ArcticPhoenix
09-08-2007, 11:27 PM
So do you think the only valid reason for giving up a child for adoption is financial?
In this case, I don't see another reason. The parents in the OP have already proven that they're capable parents, as they already have 4 children that (presumably) live with them. This means that they aren't so horrible that CPS has taken their children.
If that were the case, it would be an entirely different story, wouldn't it be?
abcNKH
09-08-2007, 11:35 PM
In this case, I don't see another reason. So the fact that they do not want another child is not a valid reason?
kingclick
09-08-2007, 11:36 PM
So the fact that they do not want another child is not a valid reason?
Not in the slightest! ;) Let's force them to kill the child instead!
abcNKH
09-08-2007, 11:45 PM
Not in the slightest! ;) Let's force them to kill the child instead!Thank you ! That is my point - especially for the pro-life folks. Everyone I know who is pro-life ALWAYS says that the choice for adoption is there for anyone who does not want a child. Even pro-choice folks agree with this. And here these people are making that choice, and people STILL says they are bad, wrong, whatever...
justGina
09-09-2007, 08:31 AM
So the fact that they do not want another child is not a valid reason?
Absolutely not.
I didn't know I wanted my last two until I had them. :cloud9:
Whether or not I NEEDED to have them is definitely up for debate. :lol:
For me, it's not good enough. For my friend, it may be. But when my friend and I are so miles apart on a heartfelt issue, it strains the friendship. I'm not saying it should be illegal or even that it's wrong, but that it's something so very different than what decision I would make. And that would make it hard to get along. Surely I am repeating myself...no speaka Ingles?
abcNKH
09-09-2007, 10:40 AM
Absolutely not.You are also pro-life, correct? Do you NOT believe that adoption is an alternative to abortion?
justGina
09-09-2007, 10:44 AM
Of course I do. :wtf2: But I don't think "not wanting another child" is a valid reason for adoption.
abcNKH
09-09-2007, 10:56 AM
Of course I do. :wtf2: But I don't think "not wanting another child" is a valid reason for adoption.so adoption is only valid if you are poor? If someone doesn't want a child and finds that they are pregnant, they should what - change their mind - change how they feel? How does that work - is there someone out there who can zap your brain somehow? Or are they supposed to keep an unwanted child? THAT sounds like a great idea.
We don't know what their reasons are for not wanting this child. Do you really think they're just saying oh, oopse. We're preggers, lets just give this one away shall we?
Also, whatever appears on teh outside such as financial stability, loving parents, mental health, loving marriage, etc. is not always what it seems. None of us know what is really going on in their lives. I will bet many of you have extremely close friends that don't have a clue as to what is really going on in your life and vice versa. Hell, sometimes our spouses don't even know (as is obvious from some stuff posted on this board).
ETA: NKH, I am just as perplexed by the whole prolife anti-adoption attitude as you. Wow. Is about all I can say. Guess that goes to show that pro-choice IS all about choices and pro-life is indeed anti-choice in many circumstances. So much for the pro-life movement and their attitude that they do promote choice, just not the choice of abortion.
No wonder women would choose abortion over adoption. Abortion is nice and quiet and no one has to know. OMG. My mind is just blown by this.
justGina
09-09-2007, 12:15 PM
Ok, NKH, I do see your point. I would much rather a woman/family give up an unwanted child for adoption than abort him. I've always thought that way. :)
kingclick
09-09-2007, 01:19 PM
This is a great debate because it does put two conflicting feelings against each other.
We as a society think that parents who just give up kids for no "GOOD" reason are bad, lazy or somehow defective people. Yet one segment of this society is also very against abortion (which is an option that avoids all of those negatives).
I would have repped you for your open mindedness and objectivity on this King but I have to spread the love.
ehartsay
09-27-2007, 04:38 PM
I think I'd at least have to ask her if she'd thought about her other children, and how they will feel , knowing that they have a sibling out there that they don't know, and who doesn't know them. Other than that, I guess there wouldn't be much I could say. That wouldn't stop me from being appalled though.
I am sort of wondering why you would be apalled. Do you think that she must have just been sloppy or irresponsible with using Birth control? After all - Clio says:Accidents happen. How many people here have accidental kids. Birth control is only effective most of the time, not all the time.
Or do you think that she should have just had an abortion if she did not want to raise this child?
Just because someone HAS kids does not mean that they must always have room or desire or willinginess of rmore.
ehartsay
09-27-2007, 04:43 PM
I am pro-choice, but anti-abortion. I don't want it to be illegal because of the larger ramifications and because it is impossible to know for sure when life begins. That being said, I do believe personally that life begins at conception and that abortion kills a baby. I could not do it, but I also can't tell other women what to do - legally. But I might disapprove of them morally, particularly if they are in the position to raise a child and just can't face the responsibility. It's not that I feel this choice - of the op - is immoral, but rather that it is something *I* could never do. If I could raise my child, I would raise my child. It would never be about "not wanting" a child - to me, that is immaterial. Once you have the child, you love it, whether it was planned or wanted at conception or not. Like I said, I would just always feel we were so very different at core that it would put a brick in the wall.
Sounds about right to me (the underlined).
However - if you are anti-abortion, but also anti-adoption - do you really think that the ONLY moral way to deal with an 'accident' is to link yourself to an unwanted child for life?
So the fact that they do not want another child is not a valid reason?
Silly you, didn't you know that not wanting a child/another child is never a valid reason for anything?
*sighs*
It is ENTIRELY possible to have a child, even more than one, and NOT WANT another child and NOT have the love for another child.
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