View Full Version : Get a "real" job...
Michele
08-18-2007, 10:11 PM
What do you consider a "real" job to be? Something you get paid to do? Does the pay need to be above a certain amount of money to be considered a "real" job? Does a "real" job mean you need to have a college education in order to obtain said job?
What is a "real" job in your opinion? What is your opinion of someone who chooses to work at say, MacDonalds rather then a corporate job that pays substantially more?
ArcticPhoenix
08-18-2007, 10:51 PM
What do you consider a "real" job to be? Something you get paid to do? Does the pay need to be above a certain amount of money to be considered a "real" job? Does a "real" job mean you need to have a college education in order to obtain said job?
What is a "real" job in your opinion? What is your opinion of someone who chooses to work at say, MacDonalds rather then a corporate job that pays substantially more?
As long as you're doing SOMETHING to be a productive member of society, you have a real job. Yes, this includes hated jobs like telemarketer, insurance adjuster, meter maid, airport security, congressman... er... scratch that last one. But anything you do, that you are employed for, that is productive to society, is a "real job". If someone chooses to work at McDonald's, I have no less respect for them than someone who chooses to work for Steve Forbes. Do I have less respect for them if all they are CAPABLE of is working at McDonald's. But if their choice is just McDonald's, then hey, good for them. If it pays their bills, what do I care? We need every job out there. If we didn't, it wouldn't exist.
There are no small jobs, only small people. If you fulfill a purpose, no matter how unromantic, you have a real job.
My definition of a job, real or otherwise, is something you get paid to do. If you don't get paid to do it, it's not a "job", it's a lifestyle choice. Raising my kids is not a job, it's how I choose to live my life. Volunteer work is not a job, it's something you do purely for love or to make a contribution to society. It's work, there's a lot of honour in it, but it's not just a "job".
kingclick
08-19-2007, 12:49 AM
What do you consider a "real" job to be? Something you get paid to do? Does the pay need to be above a certain amount of money to be considered a "real" job? Does a "real" job mean you need to have a college education in order to obtain said job?A real job is a job that takes skill to master and not something you can learn in an hour.
What is a "real" job in your opinion? What is your opinion of someone who chooses to work at say, MacDonalds rather then a corporate job that pays substantially more?My opinion of someone isn't usually based upon the job that they have.
mommymushbrain
08-19-2007, 07:39 AM
Like KC said, a real job is a job that takes skill to master and not something you can learn in an hour. And I'd add it's something you are paid for. (And yes, McDonald's does take more than an hour to master! :lol: )
I don't judge people by their jobs, as I hope they wouldn't me because I do work at Mcd's even though I am more qualified for other jobs. My kids are more important than a job right now and McD's gives me that flexibility to be with them (like all summer long!).
PlayBall40
08-19-2007, 08:42 AM
My definition of a job, real or otherwise, is something you get paid to do. If you don't get paid to do it, it's not a "job", it's a lifestyle choice. Raising my kids is not a job, it's how I choose to live my life. Volunteer work is not a job, it's something you do purely for love or to make a contribution to society. It's work, there's a lot of honour in it, but it's not just a "job".This
tuesdaysgirl
08-19-2007, 08:54 AM
A job is something I get paid to do. If I volunteer and get no pay then I am just doing a good thing with my time. My ideal job would be to get paid for doing a good thing with my time. LOL
So KC, picking vegetables or detassling corn is not a "real job?"
A real job is a job that takes skill to master and not something you can learn in an hour.
I disagree. I think there is a difference between a career and a job though. What you are describing I would consider more a career.
My opinion of someone isn't usually based upon the job that they have. ITA! As long as someone is making a living where they are self sustaining in a legal manner, they have my respect.
kingclick
08-19-2007, 12:17 PM
So KC, picking vegetables or detassling corn is not a "real job?"
No.
kingclick
08-19-2007, 12:20 PM
I disagree. I think there is a difference between a career and a job though. What you are describing I would consider more a career.But one can make a career out of a non-real job.
ITA! As long as someone is making a living where they are self sustaining in a legal manner, they have my respect.Yup!
So what would you call occupations such as picking veggies, working on an assembly line, sweeping up, mowing lawns, hostessing...If they're not jobs, what are they? I think it kind of demeans them to not call them jobs.
And Diva, as far as volunteering being something you do for joy...I don't know about that either. Many people volunteer out of obligation, not joy - and there's nothing wrong with that. I will likely volunteer more when I retire and I can't guarantee I'm going to love every minute of it. But that won't make it any less rewarding. Joyful and rewarding are not synonymous in my mind. Neither are work and difficulty.
kingclick
08-19-2007, 02:39 PM
So what would you call occupations such as picking veggies, working on an assembly line, sweeping up, mowing lawns, hostessing...If they're not jobs, what are they? I think it kind of demeans them to not call them jobs.They are jobs. They just aren't "real jobs".
Raven
08-19-2007, 02:56 PM
My definition of a job, real or otherwise, is something you get paid to do. If you don't get paid to do it, it's not a "job", it's a lifestyle choice. Raising my kids is not a job, it's how I choose to live my life. Volunteer work is not a job, it's something you do purely for love or to make a contribution to society. It's work, there's a lot of honour in it, but it's not just a "job".:werd: :agree:
They are jobs. They just aren't "real jobs".
So, they're fake jobs? Bogus jobs? What is the opposite of a "real job"? A stepping-stone?
kingclick
08-19-2007, 05:08 PM
So, they're fake jobs? Bogus jobs? What is the opposite of a "real job"? A stepping-stone?
A stepping stone. That is a good term.
OK, I would agree with that - to a certain extent. What about the developmentally disabled bagger or sweeper, who will do that job for life? Does he not have a "real job?"
kingclick
08-19-2007, 06:30 PM
OK, I would agree with that - to a certain extent. What about the developmentally disabled bagger or sweeper, who will do that job for life? Does he not have a "real job?"
No.
OK, so if that - his life's work and achievement of which he is very proud - is not his "real job" and it's certainly not a "stepping stone", then what do you call it?
PlayBall40
08-19-2007, 08:57 PM
What is your criterium for 'real' job?
Pay........educational requirement........intellectual requirement...........muscles used?
pb, are you asking a question? Of whom?
kingclick
08-19-2007, 11:29 PM
OK, so if that - his life's work and achievement of which he is very proud - is not his "real job" and it's certainly not a "stepping stone", then what do you call it?A dead end.
And Diva, as far as volunteering being something you do for joy...I don't know about that either. Many people volunteer out of obligation, not joy - and there's nothing wrong with that. I will likely volunteer more when I retire and I can't guarantee I'm going to love every minute of it. But that won't make it any less rewarding. Joyful and rewarding are not synonymous in my mind. Neither are work and difficulty.
I never said joy, Eva, I said "for love or to make a contribution to society". Obligation would fall under "contribution", would it not?
Matthew S
08-20-2007, 04:49 AM
They are jobs. They just aren't "real jobs".
You couldn't handle being behind the counter and having to smile at people who look down on you for what you do. Having to be nice to people who let their little demons run all over the place, tear up the furniture, piss, shit, vomit, and make a mess all over the place. You couldn't handle having to clean up shit off the walls in the bathroom when they have thrown it on the walls or written fuck this place on the stall wall with the shit. You couldn't handle having to stand on your feet for 10+ hours a day and coordinate 30+ people to delliver orders no matter how big to people in 103 sec or less in the drive thru from the time they pull to the speaker till the time they leave with their crap.
Don't preach what is and what is not a real job. I have had several college pukes say that when they get to their "real jobs" only to find them right back wanting to work in QSR. A real job is something that is a job no matter how small or how big and no matter what or how much you get payed.
OK, so if that - his life's work and achievement of which he is very proud - is not his "real job" and it's certainly not a "stepping stone", then what do you call it?
A dead end.
Hm, you don't give much honor to people doing their best day in and day out, do you? :(
kingclick
08-20-2007, 08:32 AM
Hm, you don't give much honor to people doing their best day in and day out, do you? :(
Honor is not putting the word "real" before job. That isn't honoring someone for doing their job day in and day out.
Honor is treating them with respect when I meet them. Honor is going to them when I need their expertise. Honor is not talking down to them when I encounter them. Honor is not giving them guilt based sympathy. Honor is treating them like a human being.
kingclick
08-20-2007, 08:34 AM
You couldn't handle being behind the counter and having to smile at people who look down on you for what you do. Having to be nice to people who let their little demons run all over the place, tear up the furniture, piss, ****, vomit, and make a mess all over the place. You couldn't handle having to clean up **** off the walls in the bathroom when they have thrown it on the walls or written **** this place on the stall wall with the ****. You couldn't handle having to stand on your feet for 10+ hours a day and coordinate 30+ people to delliver orders no matter how big to people in 103 sec or less in the drive thru from the time they pull to the speaker till the time they leave with their crap.
Don't preach what is and what is not a real job. I have had several college pukes say that when they get to their "real jobs" only to find them right back wanting to work in QSR. A real job is something that is a job no matter how small or how big and no matter what or how much you get payed.You don't know me at all. You don't know what my job experience is or what I have done. So don't say what I "couldn't handle".
Matthew S
08-20-2007, 05:51 PM
You don't know me at all. You don't know what my job experience is or what I have done. So don't say what I "couldn't handle".
by your use of real job you have implied that QSR is beneath you.
Folks:
My opinion of someone isn't usually based upon the job that they have.
Honor is not putting the word "real" before job. That isn't honoring someone for doing their job day in and day out.
Honor is treating them with respect when I meet them. Honor is going to them when I need their expertise. Honor is not talking down to them when I encounter them. Honor is not giving them guilt based sympathy. Honor is treating them like a human being.
KC is not the one who differentiated between a "real" job and a "not-real" job, the OP did that. KC has already stated clearly that he doesn't judge people based on their jobs, and that he affords honour to those who deserve it based on criteria OTHER than their jobs.
I'm not really seeing what he said that is so terrible??
by your use of real job you have implied that QSR is beneath you.
THe OP did that, not KC.
kingclick
08-20-2007, 08:34 PM
by your use of real job you have implied that QSR is beneath you.
QSR?
Book Wizard
08-20-2007, 11:05 PM
So, King, the farmer who provides your food and picks your vegetables does not have a real job? Farming is hard work.
kingclick
08-21-2007, 12:17 AM
So, King, the farmer who provides your food and picks your vegetables does not have a real job? Farming is hard work.A farmer? A farmer does more than picks vegetables. That is why it is a real job.
And I never said anything about hard work.
So, King, the farmer who provides your food and picks your vegetables does not have a real job? Farming is hard work.
It takes years to learn how to be a farmer, it's a lot harder than it looks!!! I think that easily fits KC's "can't be learned in an hour, takes real skills" criteria.
i don't think labeling the best hard work someone can do a dead end is honoring them, though. i'm pretty sure the ds govery bagger is proud of his real job, not his dead end
Matthew S
08-21-2007, 08:53 AM
Folks:
KC is not the one who differentiated between a "real" job and a "not-real" job, the OP did that. KC has already stated clearly that he doesn't judge people based on their jobs, and that he affords honour to those who deserve it based on criteria OTHER than their jobs.
I'm not really seeing what he said that is so terrible??
He believes certain jobs have more value then others. So he believes some jobs are real jobs and others aren't. See below. Instead of seeing all jobs as just jobs he differentiates between them.
http://72.52.162.205/~tccafe/forums/showpost.php?p=377166&postcount=5
http://72.52.162.205/~tccafe/forums/showpost.php?p=377210&postcount=11
http://72.52.162.205/~tccafe/forums/showpost.php?p=377475&postcount=34
Matthew S
08-21-2007, 08:55 AM
QSR?
QSR is commonly known as fast food Or Quick Service Resturant
JPSartre12
08-21-2007, 10:14 AM
Wow! The snobbery is astounding. IMO, anyone that has to get up every day and go to work has a real job.
jitobear
08-21-2007, 10:14 AM
Job: Getting paid to to work. This is the definition of every job in the world. Sure, some take more education and skills, and for that you are generally compensated more - but all jobs are real. Not everyone has the education or even ability to learn the higher paying jobs - but that does not mean their work is less real. And not everyone wants to climb the ladder. They are happy to punch the clock at the factory and focus their creative energy elsewhere. Its a mentality I understand. I work as a BSA - I am good at it - but I am just shy of blue colar. My job is not my life. Once my son is grown I will likely quit and go work in a coffee shop.
ArcticPhoenix
08-21-2007, 05:49 PM
You couldn't handle being behind the counter and having to smile at people who look down on you for what you do. Having to be nice to people who let their little demons run all over the place, tear up the furniture, piss, shit, vomit, and make a mess all over the place. You couldn't handle having to clean up shit off the walls in the bathroom when they have thrown it on the walls or written fuck this place on the stall wall with the shit. You couldn't handle having to stand on your feet for 10+ hours a day and coordinate 30+ people to delliver orders no matter how big to people in 103 sec or less in the drive thru from the time they pull to the speaker till the time they leave with their crap.
Don't preach what is and what is not a real job. I have had several college pukes say that when they get to their "real jobs" only to find them right back wanting to work in QSR. A real job is something that is a job no matter how small or how big and no matter what or how much you get payed.
You work for the public school system? :lol:
You work for the public school system? :lol:
LMAO. I would say that is any school system but yeah, private schools get to weed out the shit slingers.
kingclick
08-21-2007, 11:01 PM
He believes certain jobs have more value then others.LOL......I am dying here. I am being villified for believing certain jobs have more value than others?!?!? LOL :howling: What country do you live in where every job gets the exact same amount of pay? :howling: Boy you kill me. :howling:
So he believes some jobs are real jobs and others aren't. See below. Instead of seeing all jobs as just jobs he differentiates between them.
http://72.52.162.205/~tccafe/forums/showpost.php?p=377166&postcount=5 (http://72.52.162.205/%7Etccafe/forums/showpost.php?p=377166&postcount=5)
http://72.52.162.205/~tccafe/forums/showpost.php?p=377210&postcount=11 (http://72.52.162.205/%7Etccafe/forums/showpost.php?p=377210&postcount=11)
http://72.52.162.205/~tccafe/forums/showpost.php?p=377475&postcount=34 (http://72.52.162.205/%7Etccafe/forums/showpost.php?p=377475&postcount=34)Just like every employer out there who has a pay scale for their jobs! :howling:
kingclick
08-21-2007, 11:03 PM
QSR is commonly known as fast food Or Quick Service Resturant
:howling: and you are saying I haven't worked in FAST FOOD? LOL. You sure don't know much do you.
FaeryGem
08-22-2007, 03:34 AM
I don't care what your job is. You could be pumping petrol (gas) or be the CO of some huge coporation. Both jobs are just as "real" as one another. I currently work in a supermarket as an admin assistant but I also work the tills if its extra busy and I also train new cashiers. Theres a lot to learn on those tills and in a supermarket that size it at least takes a week or two to learn it all. A lot of people have told me that its a waste of my degree (I have a degree in business admin) but I enjoy what I do and I consider it the most "real" job I've ever had.
LOL......I am dying here. I am being villified for believing certain jobs have more value than others?!?!? LOL :howling: What country do you live in where every job gets the exact same amount of pay?
You're comparing jobs according to their payscale. According to you the more you get paid the more "real" the job is.
Teachers are renowned for being so pathetically paid. Is teaching not as real a job as a solicitor or barrister?
jitobear
08-22-2007, 08:26 AM
LOL......I am dying here. I am being villified for believing certain jobs have more value than others?!?!? LOL :howling: What country do you live in where every job gets the exact same amount of pay? :howling: Boy you kill me. :howling:
Just like every employer out there who has a pay scale for their jobs! :howling:
Sure there are jobs that pay more either because there is more profit in the business or because they require more education/skills. And yes there are jobs that are more critical than others. But they are all real jobs. Pay-scale isn't an indicator of criticality let alone realness. By your logic Brittney Spears and Kobe Bryant are more critical than doctors or fire-fighters.
kingclick
08-22-2007, 08:29 AM
You're comparing jobs according to their payscale. According to you the more you get paid the more "real" the job is. No I am not. Reread my posts.
kingclick
08-22-2007, 08:31 AM
Sure there are jobs that pay more either because there is more profit in the business or because they require more education/skills. And yes there are jobs that are more critical than others. But they are all real jobs. Pay-scale isn't an indicator of criticality let alone realness. By your logic Brittney Spears and Kobe Bryant are more critical than doctors or fire-fighters.
No. Read my posts.
Matthew was an ass and was arguing with me for putting "value" on certain jobs more than others. I was showing him that anyone who takes pay for a job puts value on certain jobs more than others.
JPSartre12
08-22-2007, 04:16 PM
LOL......I am dying here. I am being villified for believing certain jobs have more value than others?!?!? LOL :howling: What country do you live in where every job gets the exact same amount of pay? :howling: Boy you kill me. :howling:
No, you claimed that some jobs weren't "Real" jobs. You're attempt to spin it into something else isn't going unnoticed or unchallenged.
kingclick
08-22-2007, 08:15 PM
No, you claimed that some jobs weren't "Real" jobs. You're attempt to spin it into something else isn't going unnoticed or unchallenged.
I still claim that some jobs aren't real jobs and I haven't tried to spin it into anything else. The OP asked what is the difference between a real job and a job.
I could have said....
A "real job" is one where you have to leave home to earn a paycheck.
or
A "real job" is one where you have to have a degree to have it!
or
A "real job" is one where you earn money doing something you don't like.
or
A "real job" is one where you earn a paycheck from someone else.
or
A "real job" is one that earns you more than double the minimum wage.
This thread asked and I answered what I defined as a real job.
A "real job" is one where you have to leave home to earn a paycheck.
or
A "real job" is one where you have to have a degree to have it!
or
A "real job" is one where you earn money doing something you don't like.
or
A "real job" is one where you earn a paycheck from someone else.
or
A "real job" is one that earns you more than double the minimum wage.
This thread asked and I answered what I defined as a real job.
And then we would have argued with you about that - what's your point?
You still haven't addressed the idea of devaluing the best work that a person with disabilities may be able to do - honest, reliable, hard workers - simply because it's a simple job.
I've been waiting for you to say, "For that person, it may not be simple and therefore for them, it is a real job." That would be a good argument. But so far, you just keep saying the same rude and disrespectful business about no matter who is doing it, bagging groceries and somesuch is not a real job.
kingclick
08-23-2007, 01:15 AM
And then we would have argued with you about that - what's your point?
You still haven't addressed the idea of devaluing the best work that a person with disabilities may be able to do - honest, reliable, hard workers - simply because it's a simple job.
I've been waiting for you to say, "For that person, it may not be simple and therefore for them, it is a real job." That would be a good argument. But so far, you just keep saying the same rude and disrespectful business about no matter who is doing it, bagging groceries and somesuch is not a real job.
But that is WHY someone with a disability is able to do it, it is not a real job.
You asked me to define "real job"...you didn't ask me to define it for each individual person that may come along.
And to be clear. A job defines itself, it isn't the person DOING the job that defines it.
you still sound like a jerk. would you say to your ds child, who is so proud of going to his job every day, "well, it's not a real job, you know?"
kingclick
08-23-2007, 08:29 AM
you still sound like a jerk. would you say to your ds child, who is so proud of going to his job every day, "well, it's not a real job, you know?"No, because I don't see a reason to be rude like that. I don't seemy children asking me what a real job is either.
Maybe some day they will be on a message board like this and try and set people up to sound like jerks...but I really doubt it.
Because the only time I have every used the phrase is when I was seeking to better my own situation and FIND a "real job" instead of the unskilled labor job.
"Like dude I need a REAL job. I have a family to provide for now." That type of thing.
But go ahead and pull out your red paint brush and try and paint horns on me. I know that I am not a jerk for classifying jobs by their actions and not by the people doing them. I know I am no different than any other American who takes a particular wage for a particular job who values some jobs higher than others. And I am always respectful of a job well done (real or not).
JPSartre12
08-23-2007, 09:06 PM
I still claim that some jobs aren't real jobs and I haven't tried to spin it into anything else. The OP asked what is the difference between a real job and a job.
I could have said....
A "real job" is one where you have to leave home to earn a paycheck.
or
A "real job" is one where you have to have a degree to have it!
or
A "real job" is one where you earn money doing something you don't like.
or
A "real job" is one where you earn a paycheck from someone else.
or
A "real job" is one that earns you more than double the minimum wage.
This thread asked and I answered what I defined as a real job.
Still spinning? Here's exactly what you wrote:
"A real job is a job that takes skill to master and not something you can learn in an hour."
There are a lot of "Real" jobs out there that can be learned in an hour.
kingclick
08-24-2007, 01:05 AM
Still spinning? Here's exactly what you wrote:
"A real job is a job that takes skill to master and not something you can learn in an hour."
There are a lot of "Real" jobs out there that can be learned in an hour.
I disagree, not by my definition of "real job".
JPSartre12
08-24-2007, 09:51 AM
I disagree, not by my definition of "real job".
Hence, the whole premise for the debate, snobbery.
kingclick
08-24-2007, 06:57 PM
Hence, the whole premise for the debate, snobbery.
Why? Is it snobbery to value one job more than another? If so, you are a communist.
ArcticPhoenix
08-25-2007, 05:56 PM
I still claim that some jobs aren't real jobs and I haven't tried to spin it into anything else. The OP asked what is the difference between a real job and a job.
I could have said....
A "real job" is one where you have to leave home to earn a paycheck.
or
A "real job" is one where you have to have a degree to have it!
or
A "real job" is one where you earn money doing something you don't like.
or
A "real job" is one where you earn a paycheck from someone else.
or
A "real job" is one that earns you more than double the minimum wage.
This thread asked and I answered what I defined as a real job.
Double the minimum wage... is that state minimum wage or federal? Because there's a significant difference in some states. :D
Book Wizard
08-27-2007, 01:07 AM
King, just because someone is handicapped doesn't mean s/he cannot do a real job. I know a man in a wheelchair who works for the Commission on Banking. The only thing he can't do is walk. There are blind lawyers and musicians. I am handicapped and was a secretary for many years and then a software troubleshooter. Yet, you say if a handicapped person can do it, it is not a real job. You are a jerk and a snob of the highest.
kingclick
08-27-2007, 12:34 PM
King, just because someone is handicapped doesn't mean s/he cannot do a real job. I know a man in a wheelchair who works for the Commission on Banking. The only thing he can't do is walk. There are blind lawyers and musicians. I am handicapped and was a secretary for many years and then a software troubleshooter. Yet, you say if a handicapped person can do it, it is not a real job. You are a jerk and a snob of the highest.
Where did I say that? I've not said that at all. I'm sorry that you have not read my posts properly but my point is that a real job is NOT defined by the person doing the job.
I have said that numerous times. So if it is a REAL job it is a real job. No matter if a physically or mentally handicapped person is doing the job or an able bodied person is doing the job. If it is a real job, then it is a real job.
I really think you need to reread the thread here.
Book Wizard
08-27-2007, 01:21 PM
Originally Posted by eva
And then we would have argued with you about that - what's your point?
You still haven't addressed the idea of devaluing the best work that a person with disabilities may be able to do - honest, reliable, hard workers - simply because it's a simple job.
I've been waiting for you to say, "For that person, it may not be simple and therefore for them, it is a real job." That would be a good argument. But so far, you just keep saying the same rude and disrespectful business about no matter who is doing it, bagging groceries and somesuch is not a real job.
Posted by King:
But that is WHY someone with a disability is able to do it, it is not a real job.
You asked me to define "real job"...you didn't ask me to define it for each individual person that may come along.
And to be clear. A job defines itself, it isn't the person DOING the job that defines it.
Read your own bolded (by me) words. You are a jerk and a snob. If a person can earn the money by doing something, it is a job. The person often defines the job because everyone works differently. No two people work alike.
kingclick
08-27-2007, 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by eva
And then we would have argued with you about that - what's your point?
You still haven't addressed the idea of devaluing the best work that a person with disabilities may be able to do - honest, reliable, hard workers - simply because it's a simple job.
I've been waiting for you to say, "For that person, it may not be simple and therefore for them, it is a real job." That would be a good argument. But so far, you just keep saying the same rude and disrespectful business about no matter who is doing it, bagging groceries and somesuch is not a real job.
Posted by King:
But that is WHY someone with a disability is able to do it, it is not a real job.
You asked me to define "real job"...you didn't ask me to define it for each individual person that may come along.
And to be clear. A job defines itself, it isn't the person DOING the job that defines it.
Read your own bolded (by me) words. You are a jerk and a snob. If a person can earn the money by doing something, it is a job. The person often defines the job because everyone works differently. No two people work alike.
Your logic is backwards. I didn't say that disabled people could only do non-real jobs. I have worked with many disabled people that do REAL jobs. (edited) I wouldn't discount those jobs because they are real jobs, no matter WHO does them.
(edited for inappropriate reaction) I define a JOB by the JOB not by the people doing the job.
JPSartre12
08-27-2007, 03:35 PM
Why? Is it snobbery to value one job more than another? If so, you are a communist.
It's snobbery to call one job "real" and another not a real job based on your own snobbish criteria.:)
kingclick
08-27-2007, 03:43 PM
It's snobbery to call one job "real" and another not a real job based on your own snobbish criteria.:)
Not any more than it is to go into a fast food joint and not hand them a tip like you would at a posh restaurant. Not anymore snobbish than it is to pay your lawn guy the exact same hourly wage that you are paid yourself.
JPSartre12
08-27-2007, 03:51 PM
Not any more than it is to go into a fast food joint and not hand them a tip like you would at a posh restaurant. Not anymore snobbish than it is to pay your lawn guy the exact same hourly wage that you are paid yourself.
I beg to differ. I'm not judging the value of their job as you are, I'm simply paying the going rate without prejudging the worth of that job.
kingclick
08-27-2007, 03:54 PM
I beg to differ. I'm not judging the value of their job as you are, I'm simply paying the going rate without prejudging the worth of that job.
The "going rate" is prejudging the worth of that job! :howling:
JPSartre12
08-27-2007, 03:57 PM
The "going rate" is prejudging the worth of that job! :howling:
I'm not paying their salary, I'm paying for the goods that they serve. Where's the prejudging in that? :confused:
kingclick
08-27-2007, 07:27 PM
I'm not paying their salary, I'm paying for the goods that they serve. Where's the prejudging in that? :confused:
You pay a lawn guy, you are paying for his "goods". You are NOT tipping a fast food worker yet will more than likely tip a waiter in a swanky restaurant.
You just as snobby.
Book Wizard
08-28-2007, 02:55 AM
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
job1 /dʒɒb/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[job] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, jobbed, job·bing, adjective
–noun 1. a piece of work, esp. a specific task done as part of the routine of one's occupation or for an agreed price: She gave him the job of mowing the lawn.
2. a post of employment; full-time or part-time position: She was seeking a job as an editor.
3. anything a person is expected or obliged to do; duty; responsibility: It is your job to be on time.
4. an affair, matter, occurrence, or state of affairs: to make the best of a bad job.
5. the material, project, assignment, etc., being worked upon: The housing project was a long and costly job.
6. the process or requirements, details, etc., of working: It was a tedious job.
7. the execution or performance of a task: She did a good job.
8. Slang. a theft or similar criminal action: The police caught the gang that pulled that bank job.
9. a public or official act or decision carried through for the sake of improper private gain.
10. Slang. an example of a specific or distinctive type: That little six-cylinder job was the best car I ever owned.
11. Computers. a unit of work for a computer, generally comprising an application program or group of related programs and the data, linkages, and instructions to the operating system needed for running the programs.
–verb (used without object) 12. to work at jobs or odd pieces of work; work by the piece.
13. to do business as a jobber.
14. to turn public business, planning, etc., improperly to private gain.
–verb (used with object) 15. to assign or give (work, a contract for work, etc.) in separate portions, as among different contractors or workers (often fol. by out): He jobbed out the contract to a number of small outfits.
16. to buy in large quantities, as from wholesalers or manufacturers, and sell to dealers in smaller quantities: He jobs shoes in Ohio and Indiana.
17. to get rid of or dispose of: His party jobbed him when he sought a second term in office.
18. to swindle or trick (someone): They jobbed him out of his property.
19. to carry on (public or official business) for improper private gain.
–adjective 20. of or for a particular job or transaction.
21. bought, sold, or handled together: He's too big a customer to buy in less than job quantities
kingclick
08-28-2007, 08:30 AM
:howling: the discussion here is not on the word "job" but on the word "real" being attached to the word job.
:howling:
Right, KC, but your definition of anything that is not a real job is instead a "dead end". Do you think that has any positive implication? It's a very negative implication for a job that for some people may be the most positive level they will ever reach. Don't you see how this view deprives people of their dignity?
JPSartre12
08-28-2007, 08:42 AM
You pay a lawn guy, you are paying for his "goods". You are NOT tipping a fast food worker yet will more than likely tip a waiter in a swanky restaurant.
You just as snobby.
Fast food workers don't have tips built into their compensation, so they are paid at least minimum wage. In restaurants, wait staff depend on tips so they are typically paid BELOW minimum wage with the assumption that their tips will put them over minimum wage. Big difference there, buddy, but nice try. :trophy:
Book Wizard
08-28-2007, 01:31 PM
The reason I posted the definition of the word "job" is that all jobs are "real". Some jobs just take more skill and/or education than others.
kingclick
08-28-2007, 03:04 PM
Right, KC, but your definition of anything that is not a real job is instead a "dead end". Do you think that has any positive implication? It's a very negative implication for a job that for some people may be the most positive level they will ever reach. Don't you see how this view deprives people of their dignity?
Somethings deserve no positive implication.
kingclick
08-28-2007, 03:06 PM
Fast food workers don't have tips built into their compensation, so they are paid at least minimum wage. In restaurants, wait staff depend on tips so they are typically paid BELOW minimum wage with the assumption that their tips will put them over minimum wage. Big difference there, buddy, but nice try. :trophy:
Actually wait staff at good establishments here get more than minimum wage AND tips.
So....nice try avoiding the real point. You pay different wages for different jobs. You (by your own definitions) are a snob!
kingclick
08-28-2007, 03:06 PM
The reason I posted the definition of the word "job" is that all jobs are "real". Some jobs just take more skill and/or education than others.
And those jobs that take more skill and/or education are real jobs!
Book Wizard
08-28-2007, 04:54 PM
I disagree, the crew who works for our landscaper and keep our yard looking perfect, work just as hard as my husband who is a software engineer.
JPSartre12
08-28-2007, 08:45 PM
Actually wait staff at good establishments here get more than minimum wage AND tips.
So....nice try avoiding the real point. You pay different wages for different jobs. You (by your own definitions) are a snob!
I don't pay the wait staff. I don't own a restaurant. You can stop grasping at straws now.
kingclick
08-28-2007, 09:40 PM
I disagree, the crew who works for our landscaper and keep our yard looking perfect, work just as hard as my husband who is a software engineer.
You really need to improve your reading skills.
kingclick
08-28-2007, 09:42 PM
I don't pay the wait staff. I don't own a restaurant. You can stop grasping at straws now.
:howling: Whose grasping at straws? You are.
Point is...when you pay your money you support a system that is snob based (at least by YOUR definition).
kingclick
08-28-2007, 09:49 PM
Now DESPITE the two previous posters that were pretty much useless and borderline stupid.....
I did some thinking about this today.
I have to recant that a "real" job is only defined by the job itself. Actually a "real" job is defined by the ones doing the work.
Because I look back and I consider my first "real" job one working fast food. Now if I was still working that today...I wouldn't consider it a real job.
I considered it a real job then because it actually had a paycheck and wasn't being a lifeguard at a waterpark (more fun than job).
But if I was still working at the Fast Food restaurant today, I wouldn't consider it a real job. So I guess I do take into consideration the person doing the job into the equation.
So Eva.....(and yes ONLY Eva) you made me reconsider my stance. I think that a real job is one in which the person doing the job is challenged, makes a taxable wage, is paid in some form of a paycheck.
So Eva.....(and yes ONLY Eva) you made me reconsider my stance. I think that a real job is one in which the person doing the job is challenged, makes a taxable wage, is paid in some form of a paycheck.
You made my day. :)
Jokimoto
08-31-2007, 02:01 PM
lmfao
JPSartre12
09-01-2007, 09:36 AM
lmfao
I'm with you on that one. He backpeddled so fast, I think he hit his head in the fall. :lol:
kingclick
09-01-2007, 10:42 AM
I'm with you on that one. He backpeddled so fast, I think he hit his head in the fall. :lol:
I didn't packpedal. I admitted that I was wrong....but it is telling that you would confuse the two.
JPSartre12
09-01-2007, 11:01 AM
I didn't packpedal. I admitted that I was wrong....but it is telling that you would confuse the two.
Same thing, IMO. You did it to deflect the heat that you were getting for your original stupid statements.
kingclick
09-01-2007, 11:15 AM
Same thing, IMO. You did it to deflect the heat that you were getting for your original stupid statements.
Again very telling...I will remember that everytime I see you "backpedal" I will translate it into you admitting that you were wrong.
Also very telling is that nearly everyone pretty much saw how I had recanted my stance and pretty much left it at that, yet here you are in the immature child mode trolling up a storm.
JPSartre12
09-01-2007, 10:53 PM
Again very telling...I will remember that everytime I see you "backpedal" I will translate it into you admitting that you were wrong.
Also very telling is that nearly everyone pretty much saw how I had recanted my stance and pretty much left it at that, yet here you are in the immature child mode trolling up a storm.
I'm the kind of guy that sees the weaknesses and other people caving in. It's a curse. You probably still hold the same beliefs, you just can't take the heat like some of us. That's a sign that you'd rather placate the naysayers than stand firm on your beliefs. You're turning into one of the candyasses here. No wonder the pack likes you, you have them snowed by your compliance.
Here's why you need to grow a set. :respekt:
kingclick
09-01-2007, 11:09 PM
I'm the kind of guy that sees the weaknesses and other people caving in. It's a curse. You probably still hold the same beliefs, you just can't take the heat like some of us. That's a sign that you'd rather placate the naysayers than stand firm on your beliefs. You're turning into one of the candyasses here. No wonder the pack likes you, you have them snowed by your compliance.
Here's why you need to grow a set. :respekt:
I didn't think that you were as dumb as you look, but I guess I was wrong on that one too. Dude. I was driving down the road to my work thinking about how when I was 18 I got my first "real job" and then it hit me, I actually DO think that fast food and low entry jobs are "real jobs". I just don't think they are real jobs when one is older and trying to support a family.
I know, for people like you who NEVER can admit they are wrong, for someone else to admit they are wrong seems like weakness, but the reality is, it takes someone to be more of a man to admit when he is wrong than be too stubborn to admit it.
ArcticPhoenix
09-01-2007, 11:27 PM
I didn't think that you were as dumb as you look, but I guess I was wrong on that one too. Dude. I was driving down the road to my work thinking about how when I was 18 I got my first "real job" and then it hit me, I actually DO think that fast food and low entry jobs are "real jobs". I just don't think they are real jobs when one is older and trying to support a family.
I know, for people like you who NEVER can admit they are wrong, for someone else to admit they are wrong seems like weakness, but the reality is, it takes someone to be more of a man to admit when he is wrong than be too stubborn to admit it.
Yay KC!
Jokimoto
09-02-2007, 01:05 AM
I'm convinced.
:grouphug:
JPSartre12
09-06-2007, 09:44 PM
I didn't think that you were as dumb as you look, but I guess I was wrong on that one too. Dude. I was driving down the road to my work thinking about how when I was 18 I got my first "real job" and then it hit me, I actually DO think that fast food and low entry jobs are "real jobs". I just don't think they are real jobs when one is older and trying to support a family.
I know, for people like you who NEVER can admit they are wrong, for someone else to admit they are wrong seems like weakness, but the reality is, it takes someone to be more of a man to admit when he is wrong than be too stubborn to admit it.
When I'm wrong, I admit that I'm wrong. But I don't cave in when I don't think I'm wrong just to appease the masses. If I read you wrong, my apologies.
See how easy that was? ;)
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