Is this part of what makes people gay?

[Michele]

http://www.b0g.org/wsnm/articles/Alfie%27s+Home

BTW-Book is available on Amazon. :rolleyes2

[Def.I.Nition]

http://www.b0g.org/wsnm/articles/Alfie%27s+Home

BTW-Book is available on Amazon. :rolleyes2

Puhleeze. I want to know what propaganda arm of the Christian Coalition put that out. It's absolutely ridiculous. The evidence doesn't support that. I think you know that. As far as gay boys having distant relationships with their fathers that explanation puts the horse before the cart. Many young gay boys don't live up to the ideals of masculinity and this drives the father away.

As far as gay men having been molested as a child there are conflicting studies about this. One study claimed to find that 49% of gay males were molested as children. Another by Kurt Freund found that about 16% of gay males reported having been sexually abused as a child. In part, it depends on your definition of sexual abuse. The Freund study asked gay men to answer whether or not if they had been abused, wheras the other study gave an arbitrary definition of sexual abuse and defined it for the participants. The differences in these studies are important because gay teens like straight teens seek out sex, but gay boys don't feel comfortable seeking sex from boys their own age and seek out older males. Also, because many gender nonconforming boys turn out gay may have an effect on these numbers as well. Gender nonconformers would be ostracized by their peers and left out of many activities, leaving them vulnerable to pedophiles who prey on such kids. Again, that would be putting the horse before the cart in blaming the molestation for the sexual orientation outcome.

This book is basically the straight propaganda coming from the likes of NARTH. This is their theory on homosexuality and is not supported by the evidence.

Also one of the pages of that book says that the boy starts feeling different from other boys as a teenager. This is not consistent with the research. Gays report these feelings much earlier than the teenaged years. Studies show that sexual orientation outcomes can be predicted with a high degree of accuracy at as early as five years by child psychologists.

[Michele]

:cussing: Amazon has yet to post my review of the book. :cussing:


The thing is, I can't believe people actually believe this crap! I can't believe Amazon sells books like this.

Basically it's a story about a little boy whose dad works too much and only yells while at home and a mom who tells him all her problems. Then his uncle makes him feel "loved" by molesting him. He feels "different" in school and the other kids bully him and call him faggot so he goes to counseling. There, he is "enlightened" that he is only gay because his dad didn't spend enough time with him. So his mom and dad apologize to him as does his uncle and all of a sudden *POOF* he isn't gay anymore.

Putrid.
BTW-Book is available on Amazon. *Puke*
Feel free to write a review.
http://www.amazon.com/Alfies-Home-Ri.../dp/0963705806

[Def.I.Nition]

:cussing: Amazon has yet to post my review of the book. :cussing:


The thing is, I can't believe people actually believe this crap! I can't believe Amazon sells books like this.

Basically it's a story about a little boy whose dad works too much and only yells while at home and a mom who tells him all her problems. Then his uncle makes him feel "loved" by molesting him. He feels "different" in school and the other kids bully him and call him faggot so he goes to counseling. There, he is "enlightened" that he is only gay because his dad didn't spend enough time with him. So his mom and dad apologize to him as does his uncle and all of a sudden *POOF* he isn't gay anymore.

Putrid.
BTW-Book is available on Amazon. *Puke*
Feel free to write a review.
http://www.amazon.com/Alfies-Home-Ri.../dp/0963705806

OMG! No wonder that it sounded like the typical talk from the conversion therapists like those in NARTH and Exodus. It was written by Richard Cohen who is one of the most discredited people on sexual orientation issues.

Cohen has been admonished by the American Counseling Association for ethical misconduct: http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2005/03/activist-calls/

[ByoQemFizzix]

Basically it's a story about a little boy whose dad works too much and only yells while at home and a mom who tells him all her problems. Then his uncle makes him feel "loved" by molesting him. He feels "different" in school and the other kids bully him and call him faggot so he goes to counseling. There, he is "enlightened" that he is only gay because his dad didn't spend enough time with him. So his mom and dad apologize to him as does his uncle and all of a sudden *POOF* he isn't gay anymore.
Ah! But did the bullies in school apologise to him as well? Surely *they* had a part to play in his brief stint into homosexuality...

I demand that the bullies apologise to him at once so he can be 100% certain of his hetrosexuality! There'll always be a qeustion mark over it in his mind otherwise... he may need more therapy! Poor kid! He'll be condemned to a life of always wondering which hole turns him on more... he may not be able to get into Heaven! He's dooooooomed I tell ya!

:twitch:

Personally, I think any royalties obtained from the book should be used for therapy for the author...

[Raven]

I'm guessing that Bob Allen & Glenn Murphy must have read this book at some point

[Jokimoto]

LMFAO, no you didn't, Raven!

You know, I think you're biased against kids who were gay but decided they aren't. So there. Fark off.

[Matthew S]

Is that a new book or something out of the 1950's.

What a piece of crap.

[ArcticPhoenix]

Many young gay boys don't live up to the ideals of masculinity and this drives the father away. Really? Source, please?

I want to argue this point with you. :D

[Def.I.Nition]

Really? Source, please?



I've sourced info about gender nonconformers and gay outcomes before.

Read this article:


http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2005/08/14/what_makes_people_gay/

Not all homosexual men show this extremely feminine behavior as young boys. But the research indicates that, of the boys who do exhibit CGN, about 75 percent of them - perhaps more - turn out to be gay or bisexual.

[ArcticPhoenix]

I've sourced info about gender nonconformers and gay outcomes before.

Read this article:


http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2005/08/14/what_makes_people_gay/

Hrmm. I'm going to say this, Def, and I don't want to sound bigoted, and I don't want to hurt your feelings. I'm saying this up front, okay? I'm going to try to put this as politely as I can, and with as much care as I can.

I realize that the idea whether gay people are born gay or their upbringing steers them towards homosexuality are both prominent theories and that gay rights advocates believe that if it could be proven that gay people were born gay, they'd gain more acceptance, but I have a question for you. This is a simple question, not intended to be malicious, spiteful, or mean-spirited in any way.

If being gay is genetic, that would indicate an inherent difference between "gay genes" and "straight genes", yes?

Second question. If there is a difference, then where would that leave gay people? Because of the advances in genetics, and because we are closer than ever to manipulating genes, wouldn't it be possible to change that gene?

3rd question. Wouldn't that at the very least, limit the number of gay people in the world? If people were told/offered 'Well, sir, ma'am, your baby has gay genes, do you want us to leave them or make him/her straight?', how many of them would opt for genetic "surgery" to have that gene changed/removed/etc? I'm sure there would be at least a few.

Would being "born" gay really make people more supportive of it, or would it reinforce the (ignorant) view that some people have, that homosexuality is a "sickness" that needs cured?

Again, I'm not being bigoted. Those are serious questions, and I'd like a genuine answer. I personally don't care if other people are gay. It's not my business, and I couldn't possibly care less about who is gay or who isn't. Sexuality should be a private issue. But I am curious to hear your answer(s) to those questions.

[Def.I.Nition]

If being gay is genetic, that would indicate an inherent difference between "gay genes" and "straight genes", yes?

Well, they don't know whether or not if there is a gay gene. One theory out there is that there are genes that may make you attracted to males and genes that may make you attracted to females, rather than a gay gene or a straight gene per se.


Second question. If there is a difference, then where would that leave gay people? Because of the advances in genetics, and because we are closer than ever to manipulating genes, wouldn't it be possible to change that gene?

3rd question. Wouldn't that at the very least, limit the number of gay people in the world? If people were told/offered 'Well, sir, ma'am, your baby has gay genes, do you want us to leave them or make him/her straight?', how many of them would opt for genetic "surgery" to have that gene changed/removed/etc? I'm sure there would be at least a few. This is a definite possibility. In fact, recently, a Southern Baptist minister suggested that if the technology comes along that parents would have a moral obligation to turn gay babies straight.

Would being "born" gay really make people more supportive of it, or would it reinforce the (ignorant) view that some people have, that homosexuality is a "sickness" that needs cured? Could very well do that. No question about it.

Just because people might do evil because of or respond in evil ways to new knowledge doesn't mean the knowledge is untrue. Trust me, there's a very strong part of me that says "who cares why I'm gay" and thinks that all this sexual orientation research should be halted.

[ArcticPhoenix]

Well, they don't know whether or not if there is a gay gene. One theory out there is that there are genes that may make you attracted to males and genes that may make you attracted to females, rather than a gay gene or a straight gene per se.




This is a definite possibility. In fact, recently, a Southern Baptist minister suggested that if the technology comes along that parents would have a moral obligation to turn gay babies straight.

Could very well do that. No question about it.

Just because people might do evil because of or respond in evil ways to new knowledge doesn't mean the knowledge is untrue. Trust me, there's a very strong part of me that says "who cares why I'm gay" and thinks that all this sexual orientation research should be halted.

Hey, Def, thanks for answering those questions. I appreciate your response, particularly to questions that could be interpreted as disrespectful, no matter how respectfully I try to put them. But I do appreciate it. I suppose that part of me, a very large part of me, just wants to understand people better than I do now.