Bullying (WWYD)

[GracieMae]

Marion is being bullied at school. They are teasing her about the way she looks and dresses. They are even taking the food off her tray at lunch.

I have called the principal and I am hoping she will get it stopped.

Marion is going through an extremely difficult time right now and she cries often. She has also gotten to where she absolutly does not want to be touched by anyone. So of course the little darlings insist on touching her just to see her reaction :rolleyes2 She is also having many irrational fears.

I am almost to the point of removing her from the school.

I know I can't protect her from everything in life but right now I just want to hide her away from the world.

How would you handle this? I planned to wait another year to homeschool her but I am seriously considering doing it now. How can she defend herself from these children without getting violent? She had such a time learning to communicate without getting physical in the first place.

I am at a loss here.

[GracieMae]

For those of you who don't knwo much about Marion she has been diagnosed with Bipolar disorder, Autism (high functioning) ADHD, ODD and generalized anxiety disorder. She is also going through something quite traumatic right now.

She'll be 11 this month.

[Archangel]

Kids can be so cruel Gracie, maybe you could find an organization with the Principals help that specializes in sensitivity training in your area that could put on a program in the school auditorium that would help the whole student body understand all the special needs kids better, not just marion's situation. That way she wouldn't be the focus of attention but could benifift from the kids learning that everyone is unique and special in their own way.

The school must have a source book for motivational speakers who specialize in different student body issues. Call a sit down meeting with the Principal, the student Councelor and the school nurse to discuss these types of possibilities. And I'll be holding her up in prayer.

[ehartsay]

*angry*
This reminds me so much of the way I was treated as a kid - pretty much all except for the touching thing as I removed souveniers from people who got too close.

I can't really think of any good advice right now, but <<hugs>> to you both, I know what you are going through.

[Meiri]

What are the school's policies regarding bullying? The principal, teachers, and aides should be enforcing those. Are they? Can the lunchroom staff force the other children to sit someplace else if they're going to be such asses?

If she was in Middle School, I'd be asking what peer mediation or similar type programs are available, but that might be beyond her currect capabilities.

Considering her issues, I could see this as a Disabilities Act issue. Those children are creating a hostile environment, and by doing so, they are interfering with her right to an education. The easy way out for the school is for her to "go away" by being homeschooled or tutored. I have a problem with what amounts to punishing the victim by making her, you, have to accomodate their inability/unwillingness to be civilized when at school.

SHE is not the one causing the problem. THEY are. Why aren't their parents being called in to speak to the principal and counsellors about why their children are acting like little monsters instead of civilized humans?

I know when I was being picked on in grade school, Mom's comfort was helpful, even if her suggestions for what to do in response weren't so much...

I know I can't protect her from everything in life but right now I just want to hide her away from the world.I hear you momma. I want to hug you both just from reading this.

[eva]

Yeah, first, you have to turn those kids in - names and all.
Next, target when it's happening (when is there so much free time that it can happen is always my first question -- kids who have time to bully don't have enough to do) and work on supervision and prevention in that time and place.
Last, keep a log of every incident and be ready to raise hell with police and lawyers. The call of "we've retained a lawyer" unfortunately gets a school's attention right quick.

[abcNKH]

It is the other kids who are in the wrong, and THEY are the ones who should be disciplined. Fight for that - not just for Marion, but other kids like her. Bullying should never be tolerated. It creates an unsafe environment for the child being bullied. Even if I had to threaten legal action against the kids, that is what I would do. Touching her without her permission can be considered assault. Why should Marion be forced to leave when she has done nothing wrong?

In our school system, kids with special needs are entitled to an IEP - individualized education plan - this is a requirement by law because these kids are entitled to an education and the 'mainstream' way of doing things does not provide that education. There is a special counselor for these kids to help them with whatever issues they have. I think this should be a requirement in every public school system.

[Scarlet]

1) log everything
2) see what the principal has to say if you are not satisfied go further up, keep going up until you hit the superintendant of the school district. She should not have to move, they need to sort it out. If noone will sort it out make legal and media threats then.

[Meiri]

Eva reminded me of something.

Unwelcome touch, at some point, becomes assault. Stealing her food is Theft. Both are crimes that if they occurred elsewhere would be reported to the Police and treated as such.

Why should they not be so treated just because they are happening on school time and grounds?

Unfortunately, Eva is also correct that there is nothing like the mention of "this will be reported to the police" to get a school administration's attention. BTDT, though in our case, that principal probably would have acted simply on my complaint without my mentioning our willingness.

[GracieMae]

When Marion gets home I'm going to ask her if today went better. If there has been no change I am going to call the superintendent.

I am quite fearful for Marion's emotional state right now. I may take her out of school for the rest of the year so she can come to terms with what's going on in her life. *I* am having trouble dealing with it so I can't imagine how she is feeling. She doesn't need to be abused by her fellow students along with everything else on her plate.

A man from the gas company came to the door yesterday and I about bit his head off :(

Do you ever just want to crawl into a hole and hide from things?

[Michele]

First off, ((hugs)) momma. I already know you protect and love your children like a momma bear!!!!

Ok speaking as if it were my child....

1-I would get my child into private counseling asap.

2-I would get the principal to provide a WRITTEN plan as to what is being done to protect my child and a timeline in which you let him/her know that the police will be involved if the written plan isn't followed through upon.

3-I would talk to the school nurse AND the school counseler and make sure my child has a "safe" place to go should he/she feel the need to "escape" due to high/out of control emotions.

4-I would personally talk to the parents of the little shits (sorry) tormenting my child. I would try to take the high road and explain (NOT in detail) that my child is dealing with some emotional and physical issues right now and that I would like the support of the parents in talking to THEIR children about this. Just as they would want the same from me.

Grrrrrrrr...........

[Meiri]

Do you ever just want to crawl into a hole and hide from things?
For much of my older elementary and junior high years, yes.

I second the counselling suggestion. It really helped us to get back on track when we were having difficulties with DS, though nothing like what you're hinting at. Having another adult helping her to cope, and to be a support for you as parent can be incredibly helpful.

(((((((GracieMae)))))))

[SisterTaffy]

Very good advice here.

Gracie, keep in mind that since Marion is classified with a disability, her rights to safety are protected under Federal Law. If you decide to keep her home, the school should have to provide her tutoring to finish out the school year.

So sorry you and Marion are dealing with this.

[ziviel]

They have all had great advice I don't have much more to offer. But I feel for you. It is sad when kids act like this. I hope this gets resolved quickly.

My neighbor has a son who has autism and she talked to me crying because her son has no friends in school. It's so hard to think about, because we are only children for such a short time, those times should be good times.

[GracieMae]

She has been in counseling since she was 7. She didn't like her last Psychiatrist so we are going 35 miles from home so she can see a different one. Her Psychologist and she get along quite well (most of the time)

The goal was to get her to where she doesn't need weekly visits with her Psychologist. Now it's not looking like that's going to happen any time soon. We have entirely new issues to work on.

Marion came home from school in a terrible mood. I don't even know exactally how to help her. I had hoped to never have to deal with this paticular issue :( The issues at school are so minor in comparison to the big picture yet they still need to be addressed.

[GracieMae]

Thank you everyone for the advice and the kind words. It really means a lot to me. I will follow through on these suggestions.

Marion does have an IEP. For the most part the school is wonderful about sticking to it. If only she didn't have so many issues with the other children.

I actually feel like I am losing it :(

[Ginny]

I can very much empathize with what you and Marion are going through with this. I'd like to chime in with wonderful words of wisdom, but this subject is too emotional for me, and hits too close to home. I know the heartbreak of seeing your child come home from school after yet another day of teasing and harrassment. I know the helplessness of watching your child's behavior and emotions undergo a rollercoaster of changes as they deal with it all.

It sucks.

[GracieMae]

I can very much empathize with what you and Marion are going through with this. I'd like to chime in with wonderful words of wisdom, but this subject is too emotional for me, and hits too close to home. I know the heartbreak of seeing your child come home from school after yet another day of teasing and harrassment. I know the helplessness of watching your child's behavior and emotions undergo a rollercoaster of changes as they deal with it all.

It sucks.

The thing I find shocking is an alarming number of parents don't care that their child is bullying another child.

I would be absolutly LIVID if my child were treating another child the way she is being treated.

How can a parent possibly justify their child being a bully? :(

[Archangel]

2-I would get the principal to provide a WRITTEN plan as to what is being done to protect my child and a timeline in which you let him/her know that the police will be involved if the written plan isn't followed through upon.


4-I would personally talk to the parents of the little shits (sorry) tormenting my child. I would try to take the high road and explain (NOT in detail) that my child is dealing with some emotional and physical issues right now and that I would like the support of the parents in talking to THEIR children about this. Just as they would want the same from me.


This is good and I would also make it clear to the parents and their kids that the police are your next line of action if this continues on any level.

[SisterTaffy]

The think I find shocking is an alarming number of parents don't care that their child is bullying another child.


That's a huge part of the problem, IMO. Asshead parents who don't care that their kids are obnoxious, mean predators. :mad:

[eva]

In our school system, kids with special needs are entitled to an IEP - individualized education plan - this is a requirement by law because these kids are entitled to an education and the 'mainstream' way of doing things does not provide that education. There is a special counselor for these kids to help them with whatever issues they have. I think this should be a requirement in every public school system.

NKH, it is a requirement in every public school system. It's federal law - part of the Individuals with Disabilities Entitlement Act (IDEA).

[Meiri]

The thing I find shocking is an alarming number of parents don't care that their child is bullying another child.VEry disheartening, I agree. We've even seen this attitude with our own eyes and still have trouble believing it. The jackass of a father kept talking about Huck Finn and boys...I wish now that I'd stated the obvious: Huck never tried to KILL Tom.

I would be absolutly LIVID if my child were treating another child the way she is being treated.We would too.

How can a parent possibly justify their child being a bully?"boys will be boys" which really just insults boys as being uncivilizable. That attitude makes me furious anymore.

There's also the bullfeces that it's a rough world and children need to "be tough". It may be a rough world, but children don't need to be shoved out into the maelstrom at 10. Nor do they need to be taught to make it more rough.

[KittyObsessed]

"boys will be boys" which really just insults boys as being uncivilizable. That attitude makes me furious anymore.

There's also the bullfeces that it's a rough world and children need to "be tough". It may be a rough world, but children don't need to be shoved out into the maelstrom at 10. Nor do they need to be taught to make it more rough.

That was two of the most popular comments I heard last year when we were dealing with bullying from a child at school with my daughter, Krissy. Even my husband said "she just needs to learn to deal with it" or "she has to learn that people are mean, once she gets out in the real world....".

HELLO! She's 10 years from having to be in the "real world" alone. I hate comments like this.

Alot of schools have put so much emphasis on the severe stuff - watching for guns, weapons, bomb threats... that they have forgotten that the "little things" is sometimes what hurts the most.

This year as been a little better for Krissy, but we are seeing a psychologist at the end of this month to have her tested for Depression/ADHD/ADD/Bi Polar or whatever the testing diagnoses her with.

I feel for you, Gracie. I've been there.. the wanting to just hide them and never have them have to deal with it. Letting them walk into it is the hardest thing a mother has to do.

[eva]

I often hear "It will be worse if we report it." - Bullshit. Adults should not walk around being afraid of children. That's exactly what they want.

I'm not surprised at all that some parents don't care - big assholes tend to breed little assholes. The key is catch the little ones while they still have a conscience. :(

[SisterTaffy]

big assholes tend to breed little assholes. The key is catch the little ones while they still have a conscience.

Right on.

[abcNKH]

"she just needs to learn to deal with it" or "she has to learn that people are mean, once she gets out in the real world....".For a child, 'dealing with it' means relying on her parents to stand up and fight for her - this is the only way she will learn to fight for herself when she is finally 'in the real world'.

[KittyObsessed]

For a child, 'dealing with it' means relying on her parents to stand up and fight for her - this is the only way she will learn to fight for herself when she is finally 'in the real world'.

THATS EXACTLY what I said!!!!!!

[Meiri]

Dh pointed out something interesting when I read him the last few responses.

Why, when there's a Columbine, isn't the response "kids gotta learn about the real world. Toughen up!"?

In the real world, some people respond with violence when pushed too far, aka are bullied. Toughen up! What's the problem!

[GracieMae]

Marion came home from school in a good mood today :clap:

I am so glad we only have two more weeks till summer vacation :)

[abcNKH]

That is really good to hear :)

[ehartsay]

That was two of the most popular comments I heard last year when we were dealing with bullying from a child at school with my daughter, Krissy. Even my husband said "she just needs to learn to deal with it" or "she has to learn that people are mean, once she gets out in the real world....".

HELLO! She's 10 years from having to be in the "real world" alone. I hate comments like this.


And it is BULL CR-P to boot. I do not know a SINGLE adult who would EVER put up with crap like this in the worplace witholut a lawsuit or pressing charges IMMEDIATELY.
I know that I would not.
The so-called 'real world' is NOT like this - and I am SICK of people expecting children to put up with crap that they would not tolerate for a single second merely because they are young. WTH?????????????

[ehartsay]

Does she have any friends to stick up for her?

[ehartsay]

And I know how much it sucks not to have ANY friends in the high school age range.

[GracieMae]

Does she have any friends to stick up for her?

Occasionally. It depends on who is doing the picking sad to say :(

[KittyObsessed]

Occasionally. It depends on who is doing the picking sad to say :(

Krissy has "pretend friends", which isn't what you would think. She has friends that are only her friends if nobody else knows. And the sad thing is - they tell her so. She's been told "I'll be your friend, but you can't tell anyone". How sickening is that? I have explained to her what a "true" friend would be, but I think at that age, and at that point, they don't care anymore... whoever will be their friend, fake or not, on that given day is ok to them.

Krissy also tends to have more "boy" friends than girls. Girls are so cruel, so much crueler than boys.

Sometimes I wonder who all of this is harder on; the moms or the kids. I've become so protective over Krissy's feelings to the point that my husband tells me I baby her way too much and that I've given her a "victim mantality".. he says I think nothing is her fault. Well the way I look at it, life is a domino effect and alot of times moods, behavior & emotions are based off of events. Kids don't just get in a bad mood or cry for no reason. There are many things that are Krissy's fault and she needs to learn how to control her behaviors & feelings, but I'd much rather get to the source of the problem so she doesn't have these behaviors & feelings.

Gracie... I so feel your pain and I wish I didn't. I wish you didn't. It's not fair at all.

[GracieMae]

Things seem to have gotten better since my conversation with the principal :)

Marion is eating her lunch without anyone snatching it and I reminded her if she ignore's these bullies it's not as much fun for them to tease her.

That and Danny told her he'll kick their butts :lol: :P

[Meiri]

Danny is her big brother? A big brother, in this situation, is a good thing.:)

I'm glad things have improved.

[GracieMae]

Danny is her big brother? A big brother, in this situation, is a good thing.:)

I'm glad things have improved.

Yup. Danny is my 19 year old. He used to stand outside and watch Marion walk home to make sure no one picked on her on the way home. I'm not sure what he would have done since he's over 18 but ya know :lol:

[The Unknown]

Marion is being bullied at school. They are teasing her about the way she looks and dresses. They are even taking the food off her tray at lunch.

I have called the principal and I am hoping she will get it stopped.

Marion is going through an extremely difficult time right now and she cries often. She has also gotten to where she absolutly does not want to be touched by anyone. So of course the little darlings insist on touching her just to see her reaction :rolleyes2 She is also having many irrational fears.

I am almost to the point of removing her from the school.

I know I can't protect her from everything in life but right now I just want to hide her away from the world.

How would you handle this? I planned to wait another year to homeschool her but I am seriously considering doing it now. How can she defend herself from these children without getting violent? She had such a time learning to communicate without getting physical in the first place.

I am at a loss here.

Violence is not a bad thing.

It's the only thing those pathetic bullys understand, trust me.

[Meiri]

It's the only thing those pathetic bullys understand, trust me.
Yes and no. Look at how people responded to Columbine and other school shooting incidents in which bullying resulted in the victims getting violent. The root cause, bullying, is ignored in favor of handwringing and whining about where we went wrong that these children went that route and gun control. The role of their own children as bullies is completely ignored.

When a yound lady, Tempest (I forget her last name), who commited suicide due to the extreme bullying she was experiencing was buried, the principal commented to the effect that "we don't want the other kids to feel guilty" Whyever not? they were the ones who drove her to suicide, they damn well should have felt guilty. Maybe some guilt feelings would make them think next time they had the decision (as if there's a choice when you've got a conscience) to make over whether to harass someone or not.

[The Unknown]

Yes and no. Look at how people responded to Columbine and other school shooting incidents in which bullying resulted in the victims getting violent. The root cause, bullying, is ignored in favor of handwringing and whining about where we went wrong that these children went that route and gun control. The role of their own children as bullies is completely ignored.

When a yound lady, Tempest (I forget her last name), who commited suicide due to the extreme bullying she was experiencing was buried, the principal commented to the effect that "we don't want the other kids to feel guilty" Whyever not? they were the ones who drove her to suicide, they damn well should have felt guilty. Maybe some guilt feelings would make them think next time they had the decision (as if there's a choice when you've got a conscience) to make over whether to harass someone or not.

Violence is ok when no weapons are involved.

[abcNKH]

Violence is ok when no weapons are involved.no it isn't - it is never okay to hurt someone else.

[The Unknown]

no it isn't - it is never okay to hurt someone else.

Are you kidding? It's 100% okay to hurt someone else if it's to defend your self.

[GracieMae]

Are you kidding? It's 100% okay to hurt someone else if it's to defend your self.

No, it definitly is not! Hurting another person is never 100% okay!

[Book Wizard]

Violence is never the answer. It is wrong.

[mom2burgess]

Ok. I believe it is ok to use violence to defend yourself IF you are being threatened and you have NO other way of getting safely away If you have any other recourse (leaving the area, finding an adult whatever) then it's not ok

[GracieMae]

Ok. I believe it is ok to use violence to defend yourself IF you are being threatened and you have NO other way of getting safely away If you have any other recourse (leaving the area, finding an adult whatever) then it's not ok

But it still isn't ok. It may be necessary but not ok. KWIM?

[luna]

hmmm..

I believe that a blanket condemnation of violence as a way to settle an issue is, well, misguided.
I think violence settled Nazi Germany pretty well, didn't it?

Even Jesus drove the money-changers out of the temple with a whip, didn't He?

The trick is, to teach controlled violence.

Gracie, I think I may know what you mean by the distinction between "necessary" and "OK".
It would be nice if we could (loaded term upcoming) evolve beyond the necessity for violence. Until we do, I believe it is incumbent upon us to teach our children how do defend themselves, in a physical manner.

I have more to say on this subject, but it's awfully close to beddy-bye time for me.
Maybe later.

[mom2burgess]

necessary, but it wouldn't be something I would punish my children for. It's ok, in the sense that they didn't have any other options, KWIM?

[GracieMae]

Makes sense.