Opening of the zoo in New Orleans...

[Michele]

Your thoughts on this quote?

"It's a city without kids and families, and a city without kids and families is a city without soul and heart," said Ron Forman, president of Audubon Nature Institute. "So we just thought it was critical to get the thing open for Thanksgiving."

He pissed off the child free people. What are your thoughts on the bolded?

[Meiri]

A city without children and families isn't going to continue for very long, is it?

To quote Mom, in reference to the people running a lovely restaurant we went to with some of her grandchildren and who seemed uncomfortable and unprepared, "children are part of the world, they just have to get used to that." The sounds coming from the back as they dug out the highchair were interesting, to say the least.;)

[eva]

I think that the child free people are missing out on a large part of the joy of life. The mayor stated his opinion of what makes for a full heart. I agree with him. The child free people don't have to agree. Just because he's in politics doesn't mean he isn't entitled to his own feelings and opinions. I can't help it - after knowing how having children and caring for children (your own or others) literally grows your heart, I can't fathom a city without them.

fwiw, I don't think having children or caring for them is the only activity that grows your heart, but IMO it's the best way to learn love, compassion, tolerance, and a sense that this world is bigger than ourselves.

The child free people are welcome to go start their own civilization. My guess is it wouldn't last for long!

[Pops In]

I didn't see him saying that childless people aren't welcome in his city. I saw him say the city would be dead without children. Quite right too.

[ehartsay]

A city without children and families isn't going to continue for very long, is it?

To quote Mom, in reference to the people running a lovely restaurant we went to with some of her grandchildren and who seemed uncomfortable and unprepared, "children are part of the world, they just have to get used to that." The sounds coming from the back as they dug out the highchair were interesting, to say the least.;)

Actually, considering that many children tend to move elsewhere when they grow up, I don't know how much help they'd be :D

While I think that children ARE a part of the world, just not EVERY part of it.

And (for yet another blow to that horse) family doesn not equal people with children.


I think that the child free people are missing out on a large part of the joy of life. The mayor stated his opinion of what makes for a full heart. I agree with him. The child free people don't have to agree. Just because he's in politics doesn't mean he isn't entitled to his own feelings and opinions. I can't help it - after knowing how having children and caring for children (your own or others) literally grows your heart, I can't fathom a city without them.

fwiw, I don't think having children or caring for them is the only activity that grows your heart, but IMO it's the best way to learn love, compassion, tolerance, and a sense that this world is bigger than ourselves.

The child free people are welcome to go start their own civilization. My guess is it wouldn't last for long!

I think that EVERYONE misses out on some aspect of life (and gains others) because of the choices they make.

Parents do too.

I resent when people who have kids seem to assume that THEIR choice/lifepath is somehow superior to other people's and while people who have not chosen the same thing are 'missing out on a big part of life' THEY as parents aren't really missing out on anything through THEIR choices.

The thing is most healthy people don't go around 'misisng' a big chunk of life - if there is one thing you miss out on through choosing your paths, there are 100 things that come to replace it.

Children are not the only thing that one might 'miss', I might be misisng a large experience of 'joy' by not becomming a rodeo rider, a doctor, or by not having gone an entirely different path in life, but I have a 'whole' life and a whole hell of a lot of DIFFERENT experiences to replace those ones.

For ANYONE there is an infinite number of different paths you could have gone down in life nad you are missing something from ALL of them, but you have gained much more from the path you have chosen. I don't see why children have to be singled out.

Personally, I have not seen evidence that parents are any more selfless than anyone else.
My experience has often been that they are LESS so - and I think RIGHTLY so - one cannot be really altruistic when one has a child that depends on you, you must care more about yourself and your child than you do about other people and be willing to turn away other people in favor of your own child or your child will suffer.
There is a reason that MOTHER animals with babies are FAR more aggressive to other creatures than female animals without babies.
They HAVE to be.


Quote:
"It's a city without kids and families, and a city without kids and families is a city without soul and heart," said Ron Forman, president of Audubon Nature Institute. "So we just thought it was critical to get the thing open for Thanksgiving."

Maybe he could have said somehting along the lines of "and a city without one entire demographic group of people is a city without soul and heart,"?

[jamie]

I guess I never thought families to be only married or commited couples with children. I thought families made up a greater dynamic and I don't necessarily think that saying the city is devoid of children and family is a slam to childless/child free people.

[Epicurus]

Actually, considering that many children tend to move elsewhere when they grow up, I don't know how much help they'd be :D

While I think that children ARE a part of the world, just not EVERY part of it.

And (for yet another blow to that horse) family doesn not equal people with children.




I think that EVERYONE misses out on some aspect of life (and gains others) because of the choices they make.

Parents do too.

I resent when people who have kids seem to assume that THEIR choice/lifepath is somehow superior to other people's and while people who have not chosen the same thing are 'missing out on a big part of life' THEY as parents aren't really missing out on anything through THEIR choices.

The thing is most healthy people don't go around 'misisng' a big chunk of life - if there is one thing you miss out on through choosing your paths, there are 100 things that come to replace it.

Children are not the only thing that one might 'miss', I might be misisng a large experience of 'joy' by not becomming a rodeo rider, a doctor, or by not having gone an entirely different path in life, but I have a 'whole' life and a whole hell of a lot of DIFFERENT experiences to replace those ones.

For ANYONE there is an infinite number of different paths you could have gone down in life nad you are missing something from ALL of them, but you have gained much more from the path you have chosen. I don't see why children have to be singled out.

Personally, I have not seen evidence that parents are any more selfless than anyone else.
My experience has often been that they are LESS so - and I think RIGHTLY so - one cannot be really altruistic when one has a child that depends on you, you must care more about yourself and your child than you do about other people and be willing to turn away other people in favor of your own child or your child will suffer.
There is a reason that MOTHER animals with babies are FAR more aggressive to other creatures than female animals without babies.
They HAVE to be.




Maybe he could have said somehting along the lines of "and a city without one entire demographic group of people is a city without soul and heart,"?

Although I have personally found so much joy and depth through becoming a mother, I also agree with this. I find it offensive when people assume their path is the best path and others are missing out. I am certainly missing out on a lot because of having children. For instance, I could have devoted my life to helping hundreds or thousands of others but instead I am devoted to only three kids instead:) Imagine the depth and compassion that would have come from that path!

Collette

[Terrell]

Actually, considering that many children tend to move elsewhere when they grow up, I don't know how much help they'd be :D

While I think that children ARE a part of the world, just not EVERY part of it.

And (for yet another blow to that horse) family doesn not equal people with children.




I think that EVERYONE misses out on some aspect of life (and gains others) because of the choices they make.

Parents do too.

I resent when people who have kids seem to assume that THEIR choice/lifepath is somehow superior to other people's and while people who have not chosen the same thing are 'missing out on a big part of life' THEY as parents aren't really missing out on anything through THEIR choices.

The thing is most healthy people don't go around 'misisng' a big chunk of life - if there is one thing you miss out on through choosing your paths, there are 100 things that come to replace it.

Children are not the only thing that one might 'miss', I might be misisng a large experience of 'joy' by not becomming a rodeo rider, a doctor, or by not having gone an entirely different path in life, but I have a 'whole' life and a whole hell of a lot of DIFFERENT experiences to replace those ones.

For ANYONE there is an infinite number of different paths you could have gone down in life nad you are missing something from ALL of them, but you have gained much more from the path you have chosen. I don't see why children have to be singled out.

Personally, I have not seen evidence that parents are any more selfless than anyone else.
My experience has often been that they are LESS so - and I think RIGHTLY so - one cannot be really altruistic when one has a child that depends on you, you must care more about yourself and your child than you do about other people and be willing to turn away other people in favor of your own child or your child will suffer.
There is a reason that MOTHER animals with babies are FAR more aggressive to other creatures than female animals without babies.
They HAVE to be.




Maybe he could have said somehting along the lines of "and a city without one entire demographic group of people is a city without soul and heart,"?

I agree with you on this. On these matters each and every individual should be allowed to make their own choices, and their right to make their own choices should be respected. Pro-natalist people need to lose the dismissive and condescending attitudes and remarks directed toward childfree people.

[Book Wizard]

I take offense at the people who are saying that childless people are missing out. Believe me, a child of my body would not be a good idea. I do think that cities need children. Cities need people of all sorts to survive.

Because we have no children does not mean we are missing anything in our lives. Our life experience is simply different than people who have children.

[Meiri]

family doesn not equal people with childrenI agree.

Why is it whenever someone says something positive about one group, people from another take it as an attack on them?

Saying something positive about families with children is NOT an attack on those without. Saying something positive about being childfree is NOT an attack on parents.

Defensive much?

[Terrell]

The quote "A city without families and children is a city without soul and heart" can reasonably be taken as an insult to childfree people. It is saying that people that don't fall into the speakers definition of children and families, don't have soul or heart.

[eva]

Does anyone read all of what I write?
fwiw, I don't think having children or caring for them is the only activity that grows your heart, but IMO it's the best way to learn love, compassion, tolerance, and a sense that this world is bigger than ourselves

It's my opinion. It's your opinion that people with children are missing out or that a person can be complete without children. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'll change my mind in ten years. Maybe you will. But I am entitled to my life experience and my opinions thank you very much. And as someone who has devoted her entire life and work to nurturing and caring for children, you're darn right I will continue to profess what they've meant to me, what they mean to the world, and their rights and value. Put me on ignore if that level of committment annoys you.

[ehartsay]

I agree.

Why is it whenever someone says something positive about one group, people from another take it as an attack on them?

Saying something positive about families with children is NOT an attack on those without. Saying something positive about being childfree is NOT an attack on parents.

Defensive much?

He didn't SAY 'families WITH CHILDREN'.
He said 'FAMILIES'.
He said that the city was "without FAMILIES', while there are PLENTY of people whith their parents/siblings/spouses.
The implication is that by families he means only people who have children.

[ehartsay]

I take offense at the people who are saying that childless people are missing out. Believe me, a child of my body would not be a good idea. I do think that cities need children. Cities need people of all sorts to survive.

Because we have no children does not mean we are missing anything in our lives. Our life experience is simply different than people who have children.


WORD to ALL of that!

[kingclick]

A city!!! Not an individual person. Jeeze it's like some people actually LOOK for a reason to be offended.

He didn't say....A family without children has no soul or heart. It said a CITY a city is a completely different thing than a single person.

Here let me give you another quote and see if it offends white people.

A city without black people would be a city without soul.

Now are all you white people out there offended? What about you asian people? How about you eskimos?!?!

[kingclick]

A city!!! Not an individual person. Jeeze it's like some people actually LOOK for a reason to be offended.

He didn't say....A family without children has no soul or heart. It said a CITY a city is a completely different thing than a single person.

[ehartsay]

Here let me give you another quote and see if it offends white people.

A city without black people would be a city without soul.

Now are all you white people out there offended? What about you asian people? How about you eskimos?!?!

Try it this way: A city without WHITE people would be a city without soul.

Anyone offended now?

Personally, I don't MIND that part.
I mind the equation of families with children.