View Full Version : Cowboys and Indians
Shannie-Poo
10-24-2005, 11:29 AM
Would you let your children play cowboys and Indians even though now it is deemed politically incorrect? What about cops and robbers?
GracieMae
10-24-2005, 12:06 PM
Sure. My girls are usually the Indians though :P
KittyObsessed
10-24-2005, 12:08 PM
yep.
and I think boys can play with dolls too.
but political correctness burns my butt in most cases.
Michele
10-24-2005, 12:33 PM
Sure. My girls are usually the Indians though :P
Goob. I love you. :cloud9:
GracieMae
10-24-2005, 12:36 PM
Goob. I love you. :cloud9:
Back at ya sugar lums :love:
Cops and robbers yes.
Cowboys and Indians, no. I am not into PC for the most part, but when it comes to outright, racial sterotypes, no. I don't want to promote it. Did I play it as a kid? yeah, but I know better now. I wouldn't let my kids play catch and lynch the nigger**, so why on earth would I allow them to play cowboys and indians?
**The word nigger was used to illustrate a point, and to be sarcastic. It is in no way shape or form used in my everyday language, and I feel completely dirty even writing it.
mommymushbrain
10-24-2005, 05:27 PM
Actually we play Americans and Iraqi Insurgents in my household these days.
I am just kidding! My girls have played games as such, but never with any stereotypes other than good guy and bad guy theme. It's just never been an issue.
Ginny
10-24-2005, 06:14 PM
My boys have done more of a generic good guy/bad guy thing. I don't think they've ever even thought to play cowboys and Indians. If I saw that they were playing that way, I'd explain why we don't consider it appropriate and ask them to find some other scenario to role play.
Racial stereotyping is something that we already discuss with them as it comes up (and Native American history has already come up), so I can't see them having a problem with being redirected from that type of play.
kingclick
10-24-2005, 07:15 PM
Cowboys and Indians denotes the use of weapons and the killing of other human beings. I personally do not feel that killing another person is a game nor should it in any way be considered "fun" for our children to do. So that would apply to "cops and robbers" or "war" or "Pakistanis and Indians" or whatever you choose to play...if it involves killing of another human being...I am not for it.
Plus the person shot NEVER admits they were shot!!!! ;)
Plus the person shot NEVER admits they were shot!!!! ;)
I KNOW!! that was always so frustrating! Thank God for paintball.
GracieMae
10-24-2005, 11:22 PM
Wait a minute here. My girls are Native American (half anyway). Am I to believe they shouldn't play a game portraying "Indians" because they are bloodthirsty and violant????
Not all the history between the cowboys and the Indians was violant!
THIS is IMO the sterotype :headshake
I don't allow games where my boys pretend to shoot anyone. There are so many more things they can do that imitating murder isn't high on the list.
GracieMae
10-24-2005, 11:49 PM
I can see not playing cops and robbers. Robbers are breaking the law.
I am curious as to why cowboys and Indians has to be a violant game? Ok, I realize that's what comes to mind when one mentions cowboys and Indians. I am just saying it doesn't have to be that way.
Book Wizard
10-25-2005, 12:57 AM
We played Cowboys and Indians when we were kids. My mom made us cowboy outfits she also made me an Indian outfit. The other kids on the street were jealous of our outfits! It was mostly an eleborate game of catch. It was all in fun.
KittyObsessed
10-25-2005, 05:07 AM
We played Cowboys and Indians when we were kids. My mom made us cowboy outfits she also made me an Indian outfit. The other kids on the street were jealous of our outfits! It was mostly an eleborate game of catch. It was all in fun.
Thats how I saw it and still see it. Unless the kids are pretending to scalp each other... it's more or less a game of tag with a great imagination.
But to tell you the truth, I don't know that my girls have ever played it. It's just not played anymore.
It's never come up, unless you count the Pilgrims and Indians kindergarten pageant. I guess we would talk about who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are and go from there. Plus we don't play shooting, so it would be hard to do.
Now cops and robbers? I don't have any problem with that. Children emulating heroes is very healthy, imo. I would let them firefighter or emergency room doctor...why not police officer?
Shannie-Poo
10-25-2005, 07:42 AM
Its all about healthy imagination. When kids play these games they dont think of the most horrific crimes and re enact them. Nobody is scalped. Its a fun game for kids. Even cops and robbers, so they pretend shoot, big freakin whoop. Im fairly certain because they use their fingers as gun that they arent going to grow up to be mass murderers.
Let kids have an imagination, not everything has to be politically correct in a kids world. Let them chase each other, let them arrest the robber and put him in "jail". Everyone is so worried about offending an individual or a race, that we forget that its our kids, outside, running around PLAYING. Things are taken way to seriously.
KittyObsessed
10-25-2005, 08:33 AM
Its all about healthy imagination. When kids play these games they dont think of the most horrific crimes and re enact them. Nobody is scalped. Its a fun game for kids. Even cops and robbers, so they pretend shoot, big freakin whoop. Im fairly certain because they use their fingers as gun that they arent going to grow up to be mass murderers.
Let kids have an imagination, not everything has to be politically correct in a kids world. Let them chase each other, let them arrest the robber and put him in "jail". Everyone is so worried about offending an individual or a race, that we forget that its our kids, outside, running around PLAYING. Things are taken way to seriously.
very well said!!!!! :trophy:
PlayBall40
10-25-2005, 08:40 AM
I played good guys/bad guys as a child and we didn't have cable TV, RAP music and could only watch G rated movies.
Kids will play...They will use their imaginations and yes, even pretend a stick is a sword or gun. It a normal thing. I tried to "keep toy guns" from my son when he was little. What a waste of time....he simply "made" them with things he found.
kingclick
10-25-2005, 09:06 AM
Its all about healthy imagination. When kids play these games they dont think of the most horrific crimes and re enact them. Nobody is scalped. Its a fun game for kids. Even cops and robbers, so they pretend shoot, big freakin whoop. Im fairly certain because they use their fingers as gun that they arent going to grow up to be mass murderers.
Well let's see..... I just walked in on my son and they were playing "rapist and victim" I'm fairly certain because he was using an imaginary penis that he isn't really going to grow up to be a rapist. I guess that would be cool then too.
And then of course the other day my son and daughter were playing domestic violence. He was acting drunk and calling her names and "faking" like he was beating her....of course she was able to be the hero and she pulled out her imaginary "finger" knife and stabbed him hundreds of times in front of their imaginary children.
But these things are ok.
KILLING is wrong, and it should not be glorified in a childs play time. This just shows you how "f"ed up our society is when we think that kids playing should include death and murder and the ULTIMATE in violence. Cops and robbers isn't about "arresting" it's about SHOOTING to kill the other guy.
Let kids have an imagination, not everything has to be politically correct in a kids world. Let them chase each other, let them arrest the robber and put him in "jail". Everyone is so worried about offending an individual or a race, that we forget that its our kids, outside, running around PLAYING. Things are taken way to seriously.
No one here is talking about offending individuals or races.....those points have nothing to do with this debate. However KILLING is a universal no no, just like raping or domestic violence.
Epicurus
10-25-2005, 09:15 AM
We have this really neat set that has teepees and all the stuff the Indians would have used. My kids all loved to pretend to run the community. The cooking, the hunting, all of it. They do play Indians in this way. We do not play killing war games in my home.
Collette
Shannie-Poo
10-25-2005, 09:23 AM
Well let's see..... I just walked in on my son and they were playing "rapist and victim" I'm fairly certain because he was using an imaginary penis that he isn't really going to grow up to be a rapist. I guess that would be cool then too.
And then of course the other day my son and daughter were playing domestic violence. He was acting drunk and calling her names and "faking" like he was beating her....of course she was able to be the hero and she pulled out her imaginary "finger" knife and stabbed him hundreds of times in front of their imaginary children.
You know your comments are totally absurd and you know it. I wont debate such an idiotic comment.
No one here is talking about offending individuals or races.....those points have nothing to do with this debate. However KILLING is a universal no no, just like raping or domestic violence.
Gracie was actually pointing out her girls heritage as well as about stereotyping and the fact that they are part Native American. That I believe is a race.
My girls are Native American (half anyway). Am I to believe they shouldn't play a game portraying "Indians" because they are bloodthirsty and violant????
Not all the history between the cowboys and the Indians was violant!
THIS is IMO the sterotype
Well let's see..... I just walked in on my son and they were playing "rapist and victim" I'm fairly certain because he was using an imaginary penis that he isn't really going to grow up to be a rapist. I guess that would be cool then too.
And then of course the other day my son and daughter were playing domestic violence. He was acting drunk and calling her names and "faking" like he was beating her....of course she was able to be the hero and she pulled out her imaginary "finger" knife and stabbed him hundreds of times in front of their imaginary children.
But these things are ok.
KILLING is wrong, and it should not be glorified in a childs play time. This just shows you how "f"ed up our society is when we think that kids playing should include death and murder and the ULTIMATE in violence. Cops and robbers isn't about "arresting" it's about SHOOTING to kill the other guy.
No one here is talking about offending individuals or races.....those points have nothing to do with this debate. However KILLING is a universal no no, just like raping or domestic violence.
I think I just fell in love with you a little bit :lol:
:paranoid:
Ginny
10-25-2005, 10:24 AM
Although the violence issue is a huge part of why I don't want my kids playing that particlar game, the racial stereotyping is important to me as well. Every game of cowboys and Indians I've seen portrays Native Americans as "savages" who are attacking the poor cowboys who then must defend themselves. I do see it as harmful to perpetuate a negative and untrue image of Native Americans.
KachieMichelle
10-25-2005, 10:27 AM
Wait a minute here. My girls are Native American (half anyway). Am I to believe they shouldn't play a game portraying "Indians" because they are bloodthirsty and violant????
Not all the history between the cowboys and the Indians was violant!
THIS is IMO the sterotype :headshake
Well said and in most cases the Native American tribes were not the bad guys.
But in Gracie's daughters heritage, the Cherokee , they were more civilized than the United States of America. The Cherokee nation fought the forceful removal of Native Americans through the Supreme Court ,and incidentally, The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Cherokee Nation.
Worcester v. Georgia 31 U.S. 515 (http://www.justia.us/us/31/515/case.html) (1832 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1832)), was a case in which the United States Supreme Court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States) held that Cherokee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee) Indians were entitled to federal protection from the actions of state governments
link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester_v._Georgia)
However later a small fraction of Cherokee led by Major Ridge signed the Treaty of Echota which agreed to the relocation of the Cherokee to Oklahoma.. However the Chief, or President if you will, of the Cherokee Nation at the time was John Ross. The Cherokee Nation objected to the treaty claiming that the Cherokee that signed the Treaty were not agents of the Cherokee nation. Chief John Ross and the Cherokee Tribal Council insisted that the Treaty did not exist but Andrew Jackson seized the moment and pushed the Treaty through congress by a mere one vote.
The United States ordered General John Wool to forcefully remove the Cherokee Nation to Oklahoma. However, John Wool resigned his Command protesting the action of the United States government. He was replaced by Winfield Scott who lead 7,000 soldiers into the Cherokee Nation and forced the Cherokee by gunpoint into a makeshift jail awaiting the forced march to Oklahoma. 4,000 to 5,000 Cherokee died on the Nunna daul Tsuny or Trial of Tears.
Shannie-Poo
10-25-2005, 10:28 AM
See in my childhood cowboy and Indians game the cowboys chased the Indians and put them in their teepee LOL. There was no real violence,
Young children, I dont believe, dont even "know" the history behind it much less to re-enact the violence.
The problem with cowboys and indians depends upon how you view it. Are you telling me that the old style hollywood type cowboys and indians didn't portray Indians as savage and violent? that is the kind of game I am thinking of. IN my time the Indians WERE the bad guys (yeah, even though my Gpa was half cherokee too among a million other things), and the cowboys were the good guys. I don't know how kids might play it today, but that is what I remember it to be. Like I said, we know better now.
Cops and robbers don't cross any racial lines. Unless you assign them.
KachieMichelle
10-25-2005, 03:23 PM
The problem with cowboys and indians depends upon how you view it. Are you telling me that the old style hollywood type cowboys and indians didn't portray Indians as savage and violent? that is the kind of game I am thinking of. IN my time the Indians WERE the bad guys (yeah, even though my Gpa was half cherokee too among a million other things), and the cowboys were the good guys. I don't know how kids might play it today, but that is what I remember it to be. Like I said, we know better now.
Cops and robbers don't cross any racial lines. Unless you assign them.
Jory I agree there shouldn't be any pride attached to the genes we are born with but what you've described isn't about racial profiling. It's about unfair stereotyping of Native Americans which incidentally have Asian ancestry.
edited to add
We can embrace our heritage without being racial.
Book Wizard
10-25-2005, 03:51 PM
We also had a teepee. Our swingset fell down and made a nice triange, so my mom took and old sheet and we painted Indian designs on it. She wrapped it around the frame and we had a teepee. It was way cool. Our uncle was really into Indians for years so we thought Indians were neat. Our Cowboys and Indians were mostly games of chase and the Indians were the best cause they had a teepee. No killing, just fun. We couldn't kill the Indians because they were neat. Sitting in the teepee under the hot midwest sun was great. Eating lunch there was even better.
kingclick
10-25-2005, 07:05 PM
You know your comments are totally absurd and you know it. I wont debate such an idiotic comment.
That is the whole point....it's ABSURD to have children playing games of killing each other...just as ABSURD as it would be to wink and nod for games of rape and domestic violence.
Jory I agree there shouldn't be any pride attached to the genes we are born with but what you've described isn't about racial profiling. It's about unfair stereotyping of Native Americans which incidentally have Asian ancestry.
edited to add
We can embrace our heritage without being racial.
Yes, that is what I was agreeing on. I was just saying that I was confused as to what it meant to be playing cowboys and Indians. If it was playing the way *I* remember it, then there is no way I would let my kids play it that way. The way I remember it, followed the stereotypes that were acceptably portrayed on TV, which was Indian=bad.
sarah
10-27-2005, 06:34 AM
Its all about healthy imagination. When kids play these games they dont think of the most horrific crimes and re enact them. Nobody is scalped. Its a fun game for kids. Even cops and robbers, so they pretend shoot, big freakin whoop. Im fairly certain because they use their fingers as gun that they arent going to grow up to be mass murderers.
Let kids have an imagination, not everything has to be politically correct in a kids world. Let them chase each other, let them arrest the robber and put him in "jail". Everyone is so worried about offending an individual or a race, that we forget that its our kids, outside, running around PLAYING. Things are taken way to seriously.
i know i have come into this late but this is exactly what i was thinking and didnt know how to word.!
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